BIGUN 1,412 #26 August 17, 2012 You two do realize that the UK and Germany are numbers two and three respectively in crime behind the U.S. The U.S. is double both your country's crime rate; however our population is three times that of yours. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes Now, here's an interesting little tidbit... Both Germany and the UK respectively; severely outpace the US in drug offenses. Like in the greater than 100,000:1 per capita range. http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/cri_dru_off-crime-drug-offences&b_map=1 Oh yeah... the BBC calls NationMaster.com, "A Statistician's Dream. Perhaps you should turn around 180 degrees and focus on your own problems before throwing rocks across the pond.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #27 August 17, 2012 QuoteOh yeah... the BBC calls NationMaster.com, "A Statistician's Dream. Thanks. I'd never seen that site before.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,412 #28 August 17, 2012 Bitte.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #29 August 18, 2012 Quote Both Germany and the UK respectively; s I honestly would love to see the US drop all defense coverage of "Western Democracies". Time for them to pay their own way.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,412 #30 August 18, 2012 I "believe" we are all but out of Germany by 2015 with the exception of one base.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loch1957 0 #31 August 18, 2012 I don't have a problem with anyone defending himself cop or not. But come on 46 rounds, thats tad bit excessive. Part i find actually bizarre is they didn't tase him, they tase everyone else from old ladies to wheel chair riding people.Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #32 August 18, 2012 QuoteI don't have a problem with anyone defending himself cop or not. But come on 46 rounds, thats tad bit excessive. Either 1 round was excessive (lethal force was not justified) or 100 would not have been an issue (you shoot until the targets no longer pose a threat). With the FBI hit rate in the shooting I referenced 46 might have just about done the trick on one suspect. Quote Part i find actually bizarre is they didn't tase him, they tase everyone else from old ladies to wheel chair riding people. Nothing strange there. Escalation of force doctrines allow the officers to exceed a suspect's level of force by one level. Non-violent resistance can be met with compliance holds. Unarmed resistance can be addressed using less lethal weapons (taser, pepper spray, bean bag rounds). Unruly school children have learned this the hard way. Advancing towards police officers with a deadly weapon can be met with lethal force. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #33 August 18, 2012 Quote OK, we won't! Is this how we want to deal with nutters???? Cops murdering and assaulting civilians is getting old. People murdering cops in cold blood gets old too. Story out of Louisiana has two cops dead and two others wounded in double ambush. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #34 August 18, 2012 Quote You two do realize that the UK and Germany are numbers two and three respectively in crime behind the U.S. The U.S. is double both your country's crime rate; however our population is three times that of yours. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes Now, here's an interesting little tidbit... Both Germany and the UK respectively; severely outpace the US in drug offenses. Like in the greater than 100,000:1 per capita range. http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/cri_dru_off-crime-drug-offences&b_map=1 Oh yeah... the BBC calls NationMaster.com, "A Statistician's Dream. Perhaps you should turn around 180 degrees and focus on your own problems before throwing rocks across the pond. Throwing rocks? Sounds better to me than shooting I'm sure, throwing rocks is included into the German "drug offence statistic", whereas in yours is included *eating people, menacing ppl with knifes etc. .... * We have a nice bunch of idiotic junkees, stealing whatever they can put thier hands on for getting drugs - but: Killing? Absolutely rare. It already was a biggie in my town last days, as a junkee pulled down the golden necklace from an old lady to make some money. Grandma surely is shocked - but she's alive. That makes one remarkable difference in statistics. Yes, sometimes one should turn around 180° just to find out it's better to have a look at the deadly violence within the own country. I don't like potheads but, ours mainly are just throwing stones or enjoying a sit down strike. All your statistics do not paint over your reality. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #35 August 18, 2012 Why? Knives are deadly weapons just as guns are, and particularly in close quarters. Quote Umm...Yeah I know, so when the perp is armed with a knife, don't get into a phone booth with him...that wasn't close quarters...it was a PARKING LOT. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,412 #36 August 18, 2012 Quote Quote You two do realize that the UK and Germany are numbers two and three respectively in crime behind the U.S. The U.S. is double both your country's crime rate; however our population is three times that of yours. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes Now, here's an interesting little tidbit... Both Germany and the UK respectively; severely outpace the US in drug offenses. Like in the greater than 100,000:1 per capita range. http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/cri_dru_off-crime-drug-offences&b_map=1 Oh yeah... the BBC calls NationMaster.com, "A Statistician's Dream. Perhaps you should turn around 180 degrees and focus on your own problems before throwing rocks across the pond. Throwing rocks? Sounds better to me than shooting I'm sure, throwing rocks is included into the German "drug offence statistic", whereas in yours is included *eating people, menacing ppl with knifes etc. .... * We have a nice bunch of idiotic junkees, stealing whatever they can put thier hands on for getting drugs - but: Killing? Absolutely rare. It already was a biggie in my town last days, as a junkee pulled down the golden necklace from an old lady to make some money. Grandma surely is shocked - but she's alive. That makes one remarkable difference in statistics. Yes, sometimes one should turn around 180° just to find out it's better to have a look at the deadly violence within the own country. I don't like potheads but, ours mainly are just throwing stones or enjoying a sit down strike. All your statistics do not paint over your reality. Then, I'm sure you're quite content to be over there as I am over here. The difference being is that I've never thrown rocks at your country before (until yesterday's statistics) and I lived there for three years. I love your country for its rich diversity of culture and dialects, the food, the volksmarches, the people, the landscape, the ability to move among many countries, etc. Oh, how I miss the Saarbrucken region... especially during Octoberfest. So, the question becomes; is there anything about the U.S. you do like or do you just hate everything about us? The point being is that we all have our strengths and weaknesses. Hopefully you can find some of our strengths appealing and forgive us for our weaknesses as we not only did for your country, but helped bring it back into financial prosperity.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #37 August 18, 2012 one thing I do like about your attitude in such discussions: It allows me to skip reading your posts without missing anything intelligent or insightful.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #38 August 18, 2012 QuoteIn this case, I think, a taser would' have been a good first choice. This was a case of 'chain reaction'. One officer took the first shot and 5 others responded in kind. Chuck then this would be a thread about how tasers are only "less than lethal" and not perfectly safe. "why did he have to be tased? he was still several feet from any officer and all he had was a knife?"-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #39 August 18, 2012 Quote one thing I do like about your attitude in such discussions: It allows me to skip reading your posts without missing anything intelligent or insightful. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #40 August 18, 2012 QuoteQuoteIn this case, I think, a taser would' have been a good first choice. This was a case of 'chain reaction'. One officer took the first shot and 5 others responded in kind. Chuck then this would be a thread about how tasers are only "less than lethal" and not perfectly safe. "why did he have to be tased? he was still several feet from any officer and all he had was a knife?" 'All he had was a knife!' As you well know, knives can be used to kill people, not just guns. The police needed to gain control of the situation. By using a taser, the police could've gained control of the guy and his knife, without bloodshed. Instead, one of the cops chose to fire. Which set-off a chain reaction of gunfire by the other officers. Bottom line, the situation, in my opinion, was totally mis-handled. Don't under-estimate the damage a knife can do in the wrong hands. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #41 August 18, 2012 Instead, one of the cops chose to fire. Which set-off a chain reaction of gunfire by the other officers. Quote I think THAT'S the issue that should be addressed, how the 'mob mentality' seemed to overtake the threat assessment training the officers hopefully receive. Bad as it is to say, thankfully the only person killed was the intended target. How many wounds were received vs. rounds fired...where did the misses end up. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #42 August 18, 2012 QuoteInstead, one of the cops chose to fire. Which set-off a chain reaction of gunfire by the other officers. Quote I think THAT'S the issue that should be addressed, how the 'mob mentality' seemed to overtake the threat assessment training the officers hopefully receive. Bad as it is to say, thankfully the only person killed was the intended target. How many wounds were received vs. rounds fired...where did the misses end up. Damned good point! Then too, those six officers ALL had weapons drawn and a bead on the guy and fingers on the trigger. Just to play 'devil's advocate', could it be possible, the officer who fired first, did not intend to shoot? With adrenalin racing... shit happens. The other officers heard that first shot and all hell broke loose. Not much of a defense, just an 'OH SHIT moment. I'd sure like to hear the rusults of the inquiry! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhaig 0 #43 August 18, 2012 the curse of a forum post... my sarcasm was lost.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #44 August 18, 2012 Quotethe curse of a forum post... my sarcasm was lost. Zoooooooooooooom... Sorry, man. That's one of the drawbacks to this form of communication. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skycop 0 #45 August 20, 2012 QuoteInstead, one of the cops chose to fire. Which set-off a chain reaction of gunfire by the other officers Ding, ding........... We have a winner! It's called sympathic fire, and it is the most likely cause of the 46 rounds being fired. Not cold blooded murder, not blood lust, it's a matter of training. I hate to interject logic into this, but someone has to. There are any number of ways to prevent that from happening, a designated "cover/contact" officer(s), an earlier intervention by a trained officer(s) specifically in dealing with the mentally ill, etc. These situations often unfold in a very dynamic manner and they are easy to Monday morning quarterback. I would agree that 46 rounds is excessive, but the actual shooting appears to be justified, sad, but justified. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skycop 0 #46 August 20, 2012 QuoteIs this how we want to deal with nutters???? Cops murdering and assaulting civilians is getting old. So are knee-jerk reactions, gotta love the 24 hour news cycle. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #47 August 20, 2012 QuoteI would agree that 46 rounds is excessive, but the actual shooting appears to be justified, sad, but justified. I think you guys watched a different video than me. In the one I see, the deceased is walking away from the cops when they start shooting, not towards them. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #48 August 20, 2012 Quote In the one I see, the deceased is walking away from the cops when they start shooting, not towards them. I believe I heard/read that he was walking directly towards a cop that was on the side.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skycop 0 #49 August 20, 2012 What you saw was a video, taken from a distance away. You weren't there, neither was I, the guy had a knife and got shot, sad but true. No knife, no deadly force, it's really pretty easy if you think about it. I said "appears" given the facts known, I also said that 46 rounds was excessive given those same circumstances. I also gave a plausible explaination of that, not written in stone, just plausible. It's a sad situation all around. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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masterrig 1 #42 August 18, 2012 QuoteInstead, one of the cops chose to fire. Which set-off a chain reaction of gunfire by the other officers. Quote I think THAT'S the issue that should be addressed, how the 'mob mentality' seemed to overtake the threat assessment training the officers hopefully receive. Bad as it is to say, thankfully the only person killed was the intended target. How many wounds were received vs. rounds fired...where did the misses end up. Damned good point! Then too, those six officers ALL had weapons drawn and a bead on the guy and fingers on the trigger. Just to play 'devil's advocate', could it be possible, the officer who fired first, did not intend to shoot? With adrenalin racing... shit happens. The other officers heard that first shot and all hell broke loose. Not much of a defense, just an 'OH SHIT moment. I'd sure like to hear the rusults of the inquiry! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhaig 0 #43 August 18, 2012 the curse of a forum post... my sarcasm was lost.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #44 August 18, 2012 Quotethe curse of a forum post... my sarcasm was lost. Zoooooooooooooom... Sorry, man. That's one of the drawbacks to this form of communication. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skycop 0 #45 August 20, 2012 QuoteInstead, one of the cops chose to fire. Which set-off a chain reaction of gunfire by the other officers Ding, ding........... We have a winner! It's called sympathic fire, and it is the most likely cause of the 46 rounds being fired. Not cold blooded murder, not blood lust, it's a matter of training. I hate to interject logic into this, but someone has to. There are any number of ways to prevent that from happening, a designated "cover/contact" officer(s), an earlier intervention by a trained officer(s) specifically in dealing with the mentally ill, etc. These situations often unfold in a very dynamic manner and they are easy to Monday morning quarterback. I would agree that 46 rounds is excessive, but the actual shooting appears to be justified, sad, but justified. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skycop 0 #46 August 20, 2012 QuoteIs this how we want to deal with nutters???? Cops murdering and assaulting civilians is getting old. So are knee-jerk reactions, gotta love the 24 hour news cycle. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #47 August 20, 2012 QuoteI would agree that 46 rounds is excessive, but the actual shooting appears to be justified, sad, but justified. I think you guys watched a different video than me. In the one I see, the deceased is walking away from the cops when they start shooting, not towards them. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #48 August 20, 2012 Quote In the one I see, the deceased is walking away from the cops when they start shooting, not towards them. I believe I heard/read that he was walking directly towards a cop that was on the side.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skycop 0 #49 August 20, 2012 What you saw was a video, taken from a distance away. You weren't there, neither was I, the guy had a knife and got shot, sad but true. No knife, no deadly force, it's really pretty easy if you think about it. I said "appears" given the facts known, I also said that 46 rounds was excessive given those same circumstances. I also gave a plausible explaination of that, not written in stone, just plausible. It's a sad situation all around. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
rhaig 0 #43 August 18, 2012 the curse of a forum post... my sarcasm was lost.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #44 August 18, 2012 Quotethe curse of a forum post... my sarcasm was lost. Zoooooooooooooom... Sorry, man. That's one of the drawbacks to this form of communication. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #45 August 20, 2012 QuoteInstead, one of the cops chose to fire. Which set-off a chain reaction of gunfire by the other officers Ding, ding........... We have a winner! It's called sympathic fire, and it is the most likely cause of the 46 rounds being fired. Not cold blooded murder, not blood lust, it's a matter of training. I hate to interject logic into this, but someone has to. There are any number of ways to prevent that from happening, a designated "cover/contact" officer(s), an earlier intervention by a trained officer(s) specifically in dealing with the mentally ill, etc. These situations often unfold in a very dynamic manner and they are easy to Monday morning quarterback. I would agree that 46 rounds is excessive, but the actual shooting appears to be justified, sad, but justified. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #46 August 20, 2012 QuoteIs this how we want to deal with nutters???? Cops murdering and assaulting civilians is getting old. So are knee-jerk reactions, gotta love the 24 hour news cycle. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #47 August 20, 2012 QuoteI would agree that 46 rounds is excessive, but the actual shooting appears to be justified, sad, but justified. I think you guys watched a different video than me. In the one I see, the deceased is walking away from the cops when they start shooting, not towards them. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #48 August 20, 2012 Quote In the one I see, the deceased is walking away from the cops when they start shooting, not towards them. I believe I heard/read that he was walking directly towards a cop that was on the side.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #49 August 20, 2012 What you saw was a video, taken from a distance away. You weren't there, neither was I, the guy had a knife and got shot, sad but true. No knife, no deadly force, it's really pretty easy if you think about it. I said "appears" given the facts known, I also said that 46 rounds was excessive given those same circumstances. I also gave a plausible explaination of that, not written in stone, just plausible. It's a sad situation all around. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
