Skyrad 0 #26 August 21, 2012 Cheers Jerry.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #27 August 21, 2012 Quote Quote So in essence, you're validating what a lot of women see as a totally different perspective on rape. Personally I don't agree. Where do you draw the line. Is kissing someone while they're sleeping an assault? Or does it depend on your relationship with them? What about waking them up with fondling? Blues, Dave Well, if you look at the definition a couple posts up, I think it depends on the reasonable belief about consent existing or not. I would think that waking up a woman who I spent the night with by kissing or fondling would not be assault. Spending the night in intimate contact would imply consent, and unless revoked, that consent should still exist. If my backyard neighbor (who I have only a "neighbor" relationship with) was asleep in her yard and I woke her that way... That would create a problem. I can't reasonably believe that consent has ever existed. Edit to add: I the first case, I'm specifically referring to waking them with a kiss or a fondle. Not unlimited freedom to act."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #28 August 21, 2012 Quote Quote Quote So in essence, you're validating what a lot of women see as a totally different perspective on rape. Personally I don't agree. Where do you draw the line. Is kissing someone while they're sleeping an assault? Or does it depend on your relationship with them? What about waking them up with fondling? Blues, Dave Well, if you look at the definition a couple posts up, I think it depends on the reasonable belief about consent existing or not. I would think that waking up a woman who I spent the night with by kissing or fondling would not be assault. Spending the night in intimate contact would imply consent, and unless revoked, that consent should still exist. If my backyard neighbor (who I have only a "neighbor" relationship with) was asleep in her yard and I woke her that way... That would create a problem. I can't reasonably believe that consent has ever existed. I agree. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #29 August 21, 2012 its interesting (and a little worrying) that the majority of male respondents to the poll believe that it is not rape, yet the majority of women respondents say that it is rape. (yes the sample is not big but interesting nonetheless.)When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #30 August 21, 2012 Quoteits interesting (and a little worrying) that the majority of male respondents to the poll believe that it is not rape, yet the majority of women respondents say that it is rape. (yes the sample is not big but interesting nonetheless.) Note my edit. I agree with Quade that for free and unlimited action, clear and unambiguous prior consent should exist."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #31 August 21, 2012 Glad to hear that you're not advocating non consensual sex, or rape as its legally known.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #32 August 21, 2012 Absent video, bruises, or some other sign of force doesn't it just boil down to her word against his? Even those can be circumstantial. Of course this case is not about a conviction, only to get him in custody. Similar to starting the Capone case with tax law violations.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #33 August 22, 2012 QuoteHaving sex with a partner who is sleeping is legally classified as rape. Well, unless the person consented before going to sleep. (Hey some people like some kinky stuff.) QuoteA) if a woman is drunk they are legally incapable of giving consent. B) if a woman is cognitively impaired through use of drugs they are legally incapable of giving consent. I think you just exponentially increased the number of "rapes" that happen at any given moment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #34 August 22, 2012 Quoteits interesting (and a little worrying) that the majority of male respondents to the poll believe that it is not rape, yet the majority of women respondents say that it is rape. (yes the sample is not big but interesting nonetheless.) I posed this question to my fiance, specifically for her feminine perspective, without telling her my opinion. She initially agreed with the majority here, till I changed the story to make it between her and I, at which point she agreed that if the sex continued after she woke and and stayed with me (and presumably had sex) later this week, then it probably wasn't rape. Personally, I think consent can be implied. We don't need a specifically signed authorization for access, but we do have to stop whatever we're doing if said consent is ever removed. If I'm having sex and get up to grab chocolate sauce, I don't have to ask again when I come back whether it's still ok. And if we're having sleepy sex and one of us falls asleep, the other one isn't guilty of rape at the first contact after loss of consciousness. If her and I have sex, and remain in bed aferwards, cuddling naked, and 15 minutes later I'm ready for another go, I'd take consent as implied until she says no or pulls away, and she just agreed with me. If sex with someone who's fallen asleep is always rape, then kissing or fondling someone who's asleep is always sexual assault. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #35 August 22, 2012 Quoteits interesting (and a little worrying) that the majority of male respondents to the poll believe that it is not rape, yet the majority of women respondents say that it is rape. (yes the sample is not big but interesting nonetheless.) available answers were insufficient. I have an explicit green light to go for it whenever. Some couple that just hooked up for a one night stand - there you got some good grey area. The reasonable clause mentioned (rule 3 for uk) is the dictating one. The great majority of the time, when two people get drunk at a bar and pick each other up, they consented around the time they got in the car. One (effectively she, but let's pretend it's a equal right and likelihood) can change his mind later and then no means no, but regrets the next day aren't going to cut it. Dorm/frat parties are a situation where it can go over the reasonableness line if you get guys acting in concert to keep the girls liquored up and from leaving until they get some ass. Very different from the bar pickup, though often with only he said she said testimony. Need a witness to make this stick. And further over the line are the guys (or gals) that are spiking drinks. Common enough that women are tending to keep their drink in sight at all times, refusing drinks they didn't see come from the bartender. No one will argue reasonableness around involuntary drug consumption. But if it's a mutual decision to ingest, then we're back to the pickup situation. She may not be capable of consenting, but neither is he and they put themselves in that place. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #36 August 22, 2012 Assuming no drugs or alcohol (and that neither party is a nudist): I think it's reasonable to assume that continued consent is implied, subject to being expressly rescinded at any time, as long as all clothing remains off while sharing a bed. It may well be implied at other times, too, depending on the relationship.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #37 August 22, 2012 QuoteAssuming no drugs or alcohol (and that neither party is a nudist): I think it's reasonable to assume that continued consent is implied, subject to being expressly rescinded at any time, as long as all clothing remains off while sharing a bed. It may well be implied at other times, too, depending on the relationship. Less verbose than my answer. Thanks. So, here's my concern. I have brought women to multiple orgasm to a point where they passed out, were unable to breath, etc. At some point before they passed out, I gurarantee they were unable to consent because they couldn't speak or think. At which point did I become a rapist? I assumed consent was continuing and implied. Some here seem to disagree.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #38 August 22, 2012 We DO have a lot in common, Dave. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #39 August 22, 2012 Quote We DO have a lot in common, Dave. My brother by another mother. I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #40 August 22, 2012 Quote We DO have a lot in common, Dave. You both prefer women who are great actresses? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #41 August 22, 2012 Quote Quote We DO have a lot in common, Dave. You both prefer women who are great actresses? Ouch!I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #42 August 22, 2012 Quote Quote We DO have a lot in common, Dave. You both prefer women who are great actresses? LMAO!When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #43 August 22, 2012 Ok what if you are sleep humping her? Is that still rape?Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
