Skyrad 0 #1 August 21, 2012 Following remarks by a UK politician on rape and the Julian Assange case I'm curious as to what people think on this one, http://tinyurl.com/9kskbhw When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fearjoburg 0 #2 August 21, 2012 The link dont work it says page not found Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #3 August 21, 2012 Dankie, I've changed it now. http://tinyurl.com/9kskbhwWhen an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #4 August 21, 2012 If she is already sleeping with you, doesn't that demonstrate consent?Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #5 August 21, 2012 AT LEAST SHE WON'T GET PREGNANT scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DiverMike 5 #6 August 21, 2012 I agree that if you initiate sex without consent it is rape, but did you read the entire article? From the article: QuoteI mean not everybody needs to be asked prior to each insertion. Some people believe that when you go to bed with somebody, take off your clothes, and have sex with them and then fall asleep, you're already in the sex game with them. It might be really bad manners not to have tapped her on the shoulder and said, "do you mind if I do it again?". It might be really sordid and bad sexual etiquette, but whatever else it is, it is not rape or you bankrupt the term rape of all meaning. Do you think you would get different results if you poll were, "If a women consents to sex, has sex, stays in bed naked, passes out, and you are enough of a jerk to mount her again without getting explicit permission you are a rapist?" For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #7 August 21, 2012 QuoteI agree that if you initiate sex without consent it is rape, but did you read the entire article? From the article: QuoteI mean not everybody needs to be asked prior to each insertion. Some people believe that when you go to bed with somebody, take off your clothes, and have sex with them and then fall asleep, you're already in the sex game with them. It might be really bad manners not to have tapped her on the shoulder and said, "do you mind if I do it again?". It might be really sordid and bad sexual etiquette, but whatever else it is, it is not rape or you bankrupt the term rape of all meaning. Do you think you would get different results if you poll were, "If a women consents to sex, has sex, stays in bed naked, passes out, and you are enough of a jerk to mount her again without getting explicit permission you are a rapist?" Wouldn't that depend on the relationship with the woman? If this was a one night stand kind of thing, where there is no actual relationship or knowledge of the person, that's a different scenario than if it's a couple that's been married for years and knows each other well. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #8 August 21, 2012 Wait more than once my last GF would wake me up with either a hummer or riding my morning wood..... Was i raped? God i feel so dirty! Will i get pregant!?Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 851 #9 August 21, 2012 No, it does not. Some husbands have been convicted of raping their wives. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #10 August 21, 2012 Quote Some husbands have been convicted of raping their wives. GTFO! Are you serious! No way! I mean so a guy is married to his wife of X years. They have sex, she sleeps and in the middle fo the night things happen and the guy gets busted for rape? WTF!Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DiverMike 5 #11 August 21, 2012 QuoteWouldn't that depend on the relationship with the woman? Except for statutory rape, all rape cases have to be judged individually to determine if consent was given or withheld. If you look at a scenario where consent was clearly given, the question becomes how long does that consent last. It can clearly be revoked at any time ("no" means "no"), but if she falls asleep in the middle do you have to wake her up to determine if you have continued consent? Or do you need to improve your technique so she doesn't fall asleep? For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loch1957 0 #12 August 21, 2012 Not sure about other states but in Texas. NO means NO, her relationship to you is a mute point. Normiss is 100% right, at least in Texas. Its her body, you need permission to uhm "borrow it". Talking her into said borrowing is half the fun anyway.Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #13 August 21, 2012 >They have sex, she sleeps and in the middle fo the night things happen and the guy >gets busted for rape? If just before she falls asleep she says "never touch me again, jerk" then yes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #14 August 21, 2012 I read the article. I have a very low tolerance for inappropriate sexual conduct toward women. But I can't call the situation that was described 'rape'. There may be more to the situation, but I rather like being woken up to sex with my partner and so have my partners. I've made women pass out before...if I continue, am I raping them? If they had sex and then fell asleep, absent other indications, I would think consent was on-going that night until withdrawn. If you reverse the genders and say that he woke up to find her sucking on him, would you still describe it as rape? I can't imagine so. Again, I am tremendously offended by rape. No means no. Any kind of resistance means no. Even indecision means no. In my book, being drunk means no. I want a woman who is completely in agreement. But taking a nap and continuing when there is no indication she's changed her mind? ...I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #15 August 21, 2012 Quote>They have sex, she sleeps and in the middle fo the night things happen and the guy >gets busted for rape? If just before she falls asleep she says "never touch me again, jerk" then yes. OK then a smart man would leave the bed right? Wow this is strange...very strangeLife through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 851 #16 August 21, 2012 So in essence, you're validating what a lot of women see as a totally different perspective on rape. Personally I don't agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #17 August 21, 2012 I'm not sure. Please let me know where you are going. I agree that a party can withdraw consent at any time. I disagree that post-coital sleep indicates a withdrawal of consent. I don't think the guy (as described) had any intention of doing something she disagreed with. To charge him criminally? I don't see it. Let's follow the other route...let's say it is rape. What if he initiated a second round by caressing her breast or kissing her to wake her? That could be sexual battery if we follow the given line of thought. She didn't give specifc consent to this touching. Does she have to fall asleep first? What if they lay there and talk for a while and either one re-initiates by caressing the other? Battery? Do we have to give verbal consent? Written? Must it be notarized? What if you are married? I agree rape can be just as easily committed within a marriage. But are we saying it might be rape if my wife wakes me up with sex just because I've decided so? That's the logical conclusion of the argument. I think it helps clarify things if you reverse the gender roles. I have the same desire to protect women from this heinous crime as the next morally upright guy, but I'm trying to keep emotion out of it. It can't be a part of the equation that only one can be guilty or that guilt can be determined by a change of mind later. Criminal actions must be coupled with a criminal intent. I don't see it in the described situation. I think he had every reason to think the woman he had just had sex with, had no altercation or disagreement with, and was still in bed with naked, was willing. Now, if the situation was not as described, everything changes.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #18 August 21, 2012 Like others have said, I think it depends on the people/situation. And I don't know enough about the Assange case to have an opinion there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jinlee 0 #19 August 21, 2012 QuoteLike others have said, I think it depends on the people/situation. And I don't know enough about the Assange case to have an opinion there. England and Wales Main article: Rape in English law Rape is a statutory offence. It is created by section 1 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003. Definition of rape Rape is defined as follows:[25] Rape (1) A person (A) commits an offence if— (a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis, (b) B does not consent to the penetration, and (c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jinlee 0 #20 August 21, 2012 QuoteFollowing remarks by a UK politician on rape and the Julian Assange case I'm curious as to what people think on this one, http://tinyurl.com/9kskbhw Based on English law he has a valid point. Although the first two acts of copulation were consensual the third act of copulation was rape. It is reasonable to expect all acts were consensual, IMHO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #21 August 21, 2012 Quote So in essence, you're validating what a lot of women see as a totally different perspective on rape. Personally I don't agree. Where do you draw the line. Is kissing someone while they're sleeping an assault? Or does it depend on your relationship with them? What about waking them up with fondling? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #22 August 21, 2012 Correct. Having sex with a partner who is sleeping is legally classified as rape. If the person is incapable of giving their consent and penetration occurs (needs not be a penis either) then under the law that is rape. So A) if a woman is drunk they are legally incapable of giving consent. B) if a woman is cognitively impaired through use of drugs they are legally incapable of giving consent. C) If a woman is asleep she is legally incapable of giving consent. Consent to prior intercourse does not automatically offer consent for subsequent intercourse. I'm interested if this is also he case in the US, Andy? Lawrocket?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #23 August 21, 2012 Depends on prior arrangements made. I can see where the female partner might have a standing (OK, laying down) agreement where "wake up sex" is OK at all times.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #24 August 21, 2012 Obviously if prior agreement has been given as long as the woman was capable of giving consent then that would be consensual intercourse.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,436 #25 August 21, 2012 Hi Skyrad, I do believe that is the law in Oregon. If she is incapable of consenting, it is rape. Been more than frat brother who found out the hard way. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
