wmw999 2,452 #26 August 22, 2012 Simple -- adoption means that you have to be pregnant. It means you miss work (unless you're extremely lucky in the last week or so of pregnancy, and the first couple of weeks after delivery). It might mean that you can't do your job, depending on what it is. It means that you might well be on the hook for delivery costs unless you're young, smart, and good-looking (i.e. the kind of mother adoptive parents want). It means that you will have to buy a new wardrobe of clothing. It means that all of your family, acquaintances and co-workers will have a really dandy new topic of conversation. Because those are all consequences of a normal pregnancy (I'm not getting into problem ones). And if you end up with a miscarriage, stillbirth, or a baby with serious health problems, then there won't be an adoption unless you just abandon the baby at a fire station or something like that.Making abortion artificially difficult so that it hurts as much as being pregnant is punitive in nature, and nothing else. Providing birth control and education (yes, SEX EDUCATION) is far, far more likely to be effective in preventing pregnancy. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funjumper101 15 #27 August 22, 2012 QuoteQuote. But women aren't responsible for the abortions they get - democrats force women to have abortions. Force? No, but Planned Parenthood offers abortion as the first course of action. Who's ass did this bullshit get pulled out of? Are you so ignorant that you actually believe this ridiculous crap? I thought that a key component of conservative values was the belief that goverment should stay out of people's personal lives and decisions. The fucktards who talk this crap are the same exact people who want to be making personal medical decisions for my sisters and nieces with regard to birth control, pregnancy, and abortion. Fucktards, here is a clue - women are people who, in the USA, have the same rights as men. Mind your own business and stay the fuck out of women's personal medical decisions. Trying to do otherwise is the Christian Taliban in action. You folks are some really creepy motherfuckers. Crawl back under your rocks and leave us civilized folks alone. And YES, I am against what passes for "christianity" as demonstrated by Ron, the closeted gay guy I am replying to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #28 August 22, 2012 Your one warning. Cut it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #29 August 22, 2012 Quote >I will never understand why adoption isn't marketed as a better option (and yes, I >know all the arguments for and against). Agreed there. I think the three best ways to reduce the incidents of abortion are: 1) Encourage responsibility in young people; make sure they understand the consequences of their actions from an early age (both pregnancy and STD's) through education. 2) Make sure they have easy access to birth control to help prevent both unwanted pregnancies and transmission of STD's. 3) Streamline the adoption process and make sure people understand that it's a good option. 100% agreement there. Did Hell just freeze over? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #30 August 22, 2012 I aree with the exception of your characterization of a fetus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #31 August 22, 2012 So carrying a human life from conception to birth is too inconvenient? That's what I mean when I say human life is devalued too much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #32 August 22, 2012 Quote So carrying a human life from conception to birth is too inconvenient? That's what I mean when I say human life is devalued too much. I wouldn't call permanent physical changes a mere inconvenience. Carrying a baby to term will have lasting effects on a woman's body, many of which are considered negatively. Also, not everyone shares your definition of "human life." A woman can value human life just as much as you while also having a narrower view of what constitutes life. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #33 August 22, 2012 GM, I'm going to assume you've never been pregnant. For many women, probably most of them, it way passes inconvenience. It really does. Unless you have a really far-ranging definition of inconvenient, one that includes the results of significant accidents and the like. Spraining your ankle and missing a couple of days (if you're not poor enough that a couple of days' pay matters) is inconvenient. Breaking your leg and losing your job over it isn't inconvenient. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #34 August 22, 2012 Quote So carrying a human life from conception to birth is too inconvenient? That's what I mean when I say human life is devalued too much. I think Wendy answered it a bit too politely. When a man refers to pregnancy as an inconvenience, it shows the same lack of understanding seen in male legislators who propose anti-choice legislation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #35 August 22, 2012 Quote Quote So carrying a human life from conception to birth is too inconvenient? That's what I mean when I say human life is devalued too much. I think Wendy answered it a bit too politely. When a man refers to pregnancy as an inconvenience, it shows the same lack of understanding seen in male legislators who propose anti-choice legislation. When human life is treated as inconvenient, I think it shows a cold caullousness found in psychopathic serial killers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #36 August 22, 2012 QuoteI'd just like people to think a little more about the results of their actions and be more willing to be responsible for the consequences. . I'd just like people like you to accept that it's none of your damn business what a woman does with her own body.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #37 August 22, 2012 Quote Quote I'd just like people to think a little more about the results of their actions and be more willing to be responsible for the consequences. . I'd just like people like you to accept that it's none of your damn business what a woman does with her own body. I guess the FACT that I am pro-choice and have stated so in this thread escapes you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #38 August 22, 2012 Quote So carrying a human life from conception to birth is too inconvenient? That's what I mean when I say human life is devalued too much. Forcing someone to maintain an unwanted pregnancy from conception to birth is devaluing the mother's life too much.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #39 August 22, 2012 >When human life is treated as inconvenient . . . Agreed. However, pregnancy is not merely "inconvenient." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #40 August 22, 2012 Quote Quote So carrying a human life from conception to birth is too inconvenient? That's what I mean when I say human life is devalued too much. Forcing someone to maintain an unwanted pregnancy from conception to birth is devaluing the mother's life too much. You should read Terrible Secrets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,500 #41 August 22, 2012 Quote Quote >I'm saying society and Democrats in general encourages it by being overly accepting. Well, in the same way that republicans in general encourage mass shootings by being overly accepting of gun ownership. But in both cases such statements tend to move the blame away from the person responsible. Bad analogy. It would be more accurate for you to have said the encouragement of sex. Democrats encourage mass sex by being overly accepting of genital ownership? I knew I'd picked the right dog in this fightDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #42 August 22, 2012 Quote >Obama is a fucktard who lacks a back bone! I know! And heck, he's responsible for the drought and all the abortions in the US. He already has two strikes against him. and here I thought it was all Bush's fault.... Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #43 August 22, 2012 >and here I thought it was all Bush's fault... That's so 2007. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #44 August 22, 2012 QuoteGM, I'm going to assume you've never been pregnant. For many women, probably most of them, it way passes inconvenience. It really does. Unless you have a really far-ranging definition of inconvenient, one that includes the results of significant accidents and the like. Spraining your ankle and missing a couple of days (if you're not poor enough that a couple of days' pay matters) is inconvenient. Breaking your leg and losing your job over it isn't inconvenient. Wendy P. Wendy.... I always value your input and you make some great points. The problem with the whole argument from either side is that they are arguing two different things. Take what you said for example.... you are arguing for the mother and what she has to go through which is valid. a pro life person is not, they are arguing for the rights of the baby. These two are totally different and any conversation about abortion will boil down to this. The rights of the mother or the rights of the child. This is another reason abortion cannot really be as conclusive as other topics. Someone said that they thought the right was for the government staying out of personal rights.... perfect example. That poster is seeing it from the mom/woman's point of view. The right is for the govt. staying out of a persons business (most anyway) but the right sees it as protecting the life that cannot speak for itself. It is a very complex issue for sure.Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 1 #45 August 22, 2012 Quote >and here I thought it was all Bush's fault... That's so 2007. Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #46 August 22, 2012 Quote Quote Quote So carrying a human life from conception to birth is too inconvenient? That's what I mean when I say human life is devalued too much. I think Wendy answered it a bit too politely. When a man refers to pregnancy as an inconvenience, it shows the same lack of understanding seen in male legislators who propose anti-choice legislation. When human life is treated as inconvenient, I think it shows a cold caullousness found in psychopathic serial killers. the correct phrasing is 'potential human life.' It's not certain. It is certain that the mother's health as well as career will suffer. Meanwhile the other half of the conception comes out just fine. There is a considerable union of sexism and pro-life holders and that's what stands out with the "why not put up the child for adoption" mentality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #47 August 22, 2012 Quote Quote Quote I'd just like people to think a little more about the results of their actions and be more willing to be responsible for the consequences. . I'd just like people like you to accept that it's none of your damn business what a woman does with her own body. I guess the FACT that I am pro-choice and have stated so in this thread escapes you. Easy to say. Your unwavering support of a party whose platform continues to include a total ban on abortions says otherwise.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #48 August 23, 2012 I agree with you there. There is an inescapable difference in opinion on when life begins. Of course, it only begins at (however many) weeks when the woman is aware of it. When the woman wasn't aware of being pregnant, there doesn't seem to be any issue with it ending. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #49 August 23, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote I'd just like people to think a little more about the results of their actions and be more willing to be responsible for the consequences. . I'd just like people like you to accept that it's none of your damn business what a woman does with her own body. I guess the FACT that I am pro-choice and have stated so in this thread escapes you. Easy to say. Your unwavering support of a party whose platform continues to include a total ban on abortions says otherwise. That you are incapable of understanding complex philosophies, in no way invalidates the reality. Unless of course, you would like to deny that too. Simply wrong, as usual. Or to break it down to something you can understand. I may not like it but it's none of my business. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #50 August 23, 2012 You continue to give unwavering support to a party a major plank in whose platform includes denying a woman's basic right to have control of her own body. Your actions speak louder than your words.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
