Why won't the GOP relax a little

[kallend 2,105]

Prohibition has a long history of failure.

The "war on drugs" is a failure. All it's done is cost us a fortune in prison costs and enriched a bunch of criminals.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Southern_Man 0]

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How well is our current War on Drugs working?

So you think the solution is to destroy society by legalizing Crack? How about heroin? Surely you won't mind stepping over all the nodded out junkies and empty syringes on your daily route?

Yeah, clearly we should just keep doing what we are doing, you know, since it prevents all those people from taking drugs.

Have you ever been to an N.A. meeting? Get back to us after you do.

Yes, I have. I appreciate that Ron posts with his clinical background, even if I sometimes disagree with him. I appreciate that you may have some background as well. I work, as Ron did, in a public mental health setting. Substance abuse is not my primary area of service but I am hardly ignorant of the realities of drug use in our society. I have also had much personal contact, including helping people get treatment and being part of a couple of interventions.

All of that happened in spite of our current drug laws, which you seem to think work.

My experience was helping a good friend who became addicted to alchohol and crack. I attended several dozen A.A. and N.A. meetings. Sadly, my friend could not shake his addiction and died of an overdose. I also remember sitting in those meetings and hearing that someone else who had been there just a few days before had succumbed to substance abuse again.

Crack is nothing like alchohol, heroin or even powder cocaine. It is incredibly addicting and it often causes a person to become addicted with just one usage.

I am very happy I do not have to live in a world full of crackheads and junkies. If you think the war on drugs is expensive, wait until you see the devestation legalizing crack would cause. Of course, then the liberals would tell us we need to provide housing, food and free medical treatment for these "poor souls" who became addicted by using a legal substance.

So, now we have two people with direct experience w/ substance abuse affecting people they care about and who have been to multiple N.A. meetings (and I've experienced/witnessed quite a few other treatment modalities as well) coming to opposite conclusions about the effect of the current war on drugs.

So what does any of that prove? Just proves to me that personal experience is not dispositive in guiding political philosophy on this issue.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Gravitymaster 0]

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How well did Prohibition work?

You obviously are having trouble distinguishing the differences between alchohol and a highly addictive substance like crack cocaine. You really should go to an N.A. meeting sometime and talk to people whose lives were devestated after they became addicted from just one toke on a crack pipe. But I'm sure you would not want to associate yourself with "those people".

How did legalization of Opium work out for China?

How well is our current War on Drugs working?

So you think the solution is to destroy society by legalizing Crack? How about heroin? Surely you won't mind stepping over all the nodded out junkies and empty syringes on your daily route?

So you would argue that outlawing guns would prevent gun crime. Curious.

So you have never been to an N.A. meeting, either?

Get back to us after you do. Until then, you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

Why would I go to an NA meeting? I haven't been to an NRA meeting either. Or an AA meeting, or a Weight Watcher's meeting.

Prohibition has a long history of failure.

I think you are a classic busibody, knowing what's best for everyone else.

Perhaps going to an N.A. meeting would show you how little you know about drug addition. especially crack. But I understand why an elitist professor would want to avoid coming in direct contact with "those people".

[Gravitymaster 0]

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How well is our current War on Drugs working?

So you think the solution is to destroy society by legalizing Crack? How about heroin? Surely you won't mind stepping over all the nodded out junkies and empty syringes on your daily route?

Yeah, clearly we should just keep doing what we are doing, you know, since it prevents all those people from taking drugs.

Have you ever been to an N.A. meeting? Get back to us after you do.

Yes, I have. I appreciate that Ron posts with his clinical background, even if I sometimes disagree with him. I appreciate that you may have some background as well. I work, as Ron did, in a public mental health setting. Substance abuse is not my primary area of service but I am hardly ignorant of the realities of drug use in our society. I have also had much personal contact, including helping people get treatment and being part of a couple of interventions.

All of that happened in spite of our current drug laws, which you seem to think work.

My experience was helping a good friend who became addicted to alchohol and crack. I attended several dozen A.A. and N.A. meetings. Sadly, my friend could not shake his addiction and died of an overdose. I also remember sitting in those meetings and hearing that someone else who had been there just a few days before had succumbed to substance abuse again.

Crack is nothing like alchohol, heroin or even powder cocaine. It is incredibly addicting and it often causes a person to become addicted with just one usage.

I am very happy I do not have to live in a world full of crackheads and junkies. If you think the war on drugs is expensive, wait until you see the devestation legalizing crack would cause. Of course, then the liberals would tell us we need to provide housing, food and free medical treatment for these "poor souls" who became addicted by using a legal substance.

So, now we have two people with direct experience w/ substance abuse affecting people they care about and who have been to multiple N.A. meetings (and I've experienced/witnessed quite a few other treatment modalities as well) coming to opposite conclusions about the effect of the current war on drugs.

So what does any of that prove? Just proves to me that personal experience is not dispositive in guiding political philosophy on this issue.

If you are denying that crack cocaine is the most addicting substance ever wrought on humanity, then I would have serious concerns about your perspective on other issues as well.

[Southern_Man 0]

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If you are denying that crack cocaine is the most addicting substance ever wrought on humanity, then I would have serious concerns about your perspective on other issues as well.

Nowhere did I make any statement about the addictive properties of crack cocaine.

You really think our current war on drugs is working?

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[normiss 843]

a handful of corporations have also made some nice money from ALL aspects of the legal assault on drugs the government doesn't like.

Yet another huge waste of government money.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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If you are denying that crack cocaine is the most addicting substance ever wrought on humanity, then I would have serious concerns about your perspective on other issues as well.

Nowhere did I make any statement about the addictive properties of crack cocaine.

You really think our current war on drugs is working?

So now you want to change the subject? I simply said I did not want Crack Cocaine to be legal. Don't try and turn this into a discussion on whether drugs should be legalized.

I have never met anyone in the medical or mental health field who thought legalizing crack was a good idea.

[yourmomma 0]

So you need to go to a gun violence support group before you can understand the consequences of gun ownership? I know you keep on with the N.A thing because you cant address the fact that the gun ownership legality/drug usage and legality arguments are interchangeable. Finally, my personal experience with addiction is all I need to understand the issue.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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So you need to go to a gun violence support group before you can understand the consequences of gun ownership? I know you keep on with the N.A thing because you cant address the fact that the gun ownership legality/drug usage and legality arguments are interchangeable. Finally, my personal experience with addiction is all I need to understand the issue.

I wasn't aware gun ownership was physically and mentally addicting. I also must have missed where gun ownership was illegal.

Let us know after you attend an N.A. meeting. I know it will be uncomfortable for you at first, having to sit next to "those people" and listen to your ideology crumble as they speak of their experiences. But keep in mind as you sit through the meeting that they were once the same nice, friendly people you went to school with. Until they took that first toke off the crack pipe.

[normiss 843]

So will going to NA explain to me how fucking idiotic they were to put that damn crack pipe in the mouth?
Legalities have zero to do with intelligence.

[Southern_Man 0]

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So now you want to change the subject? I simply said I did not want Crack Cocaine to be legal. Don't try and turn this into a discussion on whether drugs should be legalized.

What did I do to change the subject? Is Crack not part of the war on drugs? Given the current status of politics in our country I'd be thrilled to legalize marijuana for now and work on the rest later.

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I have never met anyone in the medical or mental health field who thought legalizing crack was a good idea.

Well, we haven't met in person, but now you have. I assure you that I am hardly the only one who feels that way. It is probably a minority opinion but there are quite a few people in my agency (including some of the substance abuse folks) who share those beliefs.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Gravitymaster 0]

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So will going to NA explain to me how fucking idiotic they were to put that damn crack pipe in the mouth?
Legalities have zero to do with intelligence.

No it won't. But think of the naive teenager who bows to peer pressure and takes that first hit off a crack pipe at a party.

Have you ever been to an N.A. meeting? If not, you should.

[normiss 843]

I don't need NA drivel in my life thank you.

My kids never picked up a crack pipe.
A little weed was sampled, and they lost interest.
Gateway drug my ass.

[Shotgun 1]

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So will going to NA explain to me how fucking idiotic they were to put that damn crack pipe in the mouth?
Legalities have zero to do with intelligence.

No it won't. But think of the naive teenager who bows to peer pressure and takes that first hit off a crack pipe at a party.

Have you ever been to an N.A. meeting? If not, you should.

While going to an NA meeting might be interesting, and might give one a new perspective on drug abuse, NA is hardly an authority on drugs. All you're going to hear is the perspective of people who became addicted to drugs. Many people experiment with drugs - even crack cocaine - and do not become addicted. But you're not going to hear from these people at an NA meeting.

Sort of like forming your opinion on alcohol from AA meetings. It would probably give you the idea that alcohol was such a dangerous and addictive drug that it should not be legal. (Actually, it is a very dangerous and addictive drug, but most people prefer to have the option to use it while putting up with all the crap society has to deal with because of it.)

[jakee 1,558]

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So now you want to change the subject? I simply said I did not want Crack Cocaine to be legal. Don't try and turn this into a discussion on whether drugs should be legalized.

Hang on a moment - you brought the legalisation of crack cocaine into an abortion debate but you think that broadening the scope from crack to drugs in general is an unnacceptable change of topic?

Your Troll-Fu is strong. A bit obvious, but otherwise well played.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Hjeada 0]

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Your Troll-Fu is strong.

That's funny right there, I don't care who you are!!!

Dudeist Skydiver #0511

[Gravitymaster 0]

Many whuffos who have never stepped foot on a DZ, feel perfectly justified in discussing the dangers of skydiving.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Nope, the original post was about hating women and gays. Do try and keep up, would you?

[jakee 1,558]

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Nope, the original post was about hating women and gays. Do try and keep up, would you?

So... you're saying that you're being even more petty than I said you were?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Shotgun 1]

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Many whuffos who have never stepped foot on a DZ, feel perfectly justified in discussing the dangers of skydiving.

And many people who have never used illegal drugs feel perfectly justified in discussing the dangers of using illegal drugs.

Of course, it's possible to learn about the dangers of something without actually trying it or even being around it. But I think too many people use very limited information to think they know enough to have an authoritative opinion.

[tkhayes 348]

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Your response is pretty weird. Have you ever been to an N.A. meeting? Do you have any idea how addictive crack cocaine is? If not, then you haven't any idea what you are talking about. That's pretty typical of those who support legalization of crack, so don't feel you are alone.

Let us know your thoughts AFTER attending that N.A. meeting, OK?

How addictive it is is not really relevant. Due to advancements in technology and modern society, it is readily available. Despite our best efforts, people still use it. Heroin as well. So I would rather regulate it and treat it for what it is, an ADDICTION, which you apparently agree with.

Social programs/healthcare programs to treat it is WAY cheaper that judicial/prison programs to punish it. And it could be sold by private enterprise, creating jobs, taxed to pay for the treatment programs.

Cigarettes do the same - they are addictive and they kill. Alcohol is addictive and it kills, neither is illegal. 99.9% of the sales are above board, and they are easily taxed and controlled.

Open it ALL up. ALL drugs. What we are doing today is NOT working and is bankrupting the country, s well as destroying our social fabric already. Prisons are revolving doors and the punishment is not working either.

Keep doing the same things? You will keep seeing the same results.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Many whuffos who have never stepped foot on a DZ, feel perfectly justified in discussing the dangers of skydiving.

And many people who have never used illegal drugs feel perfectly justified in discussing the dangers of using illegal drugs.

Of course, it's possible to learn about the dangers of something without actually trying it or even being around it. But I think too many people use very limited information to think they know enough to have an authoritative opinion.

That's exactly what wuffos say about skydiving.

[tkhayes 348]

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I don't need NA drivel in my life thank you.

My kids never picked up a crack pipe.
A little weed was sampled, and they lost interest.
Gateway drug my ass.

+1

we could try some parenting, but the 'parents' are in jail.....maybe if they were not actually in jail but in 'treatment', then they could spend some time on the parenting side of it. cycle in - cycle out - cycle in - cycle out.....it's fucking insane....

I smoked pot, a LOT of pot- I sold pot, a LOT of pot in my day. I also grew up and lost interest.

[Shotgun 1]

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Many whuffos who have never stepped foot on a DZ, feel perfectly justified in discussing the dangers of skydiving.

And many people who have never used illegal drugs feel perfectly justified in discussing the dangers of using illegal drugs.

Of course, it's possible to learn about the dangers of something without actually trying it or even being around it. But I think too many people use very limited information to think they know enough to have an authoritative opinion.

That's exactly what wuffos say about skydiving.

I'm not really sure what your point is.

Are you a crack cocaine whuffo who is trying to discuss the dangers of crack cocaine?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Your response is pretty weird. Have you ever been to an N.A. meeting? Do you have any idea how addictive crack cocaine is? If not, then you haven't any idea what you are talking about. That's pretty typical of those who support legalization of crack, so don't feel you are alone.

Let us know your thoughts AFTER attending that N.A. meeting, OK?

How addictive it is is not really relevant. Due to advancements in technology and modern society, it is readily available. Despite our best efforts, people still use it. Heroin as well. So I would rather regulate it and treat it for what it is, an ADDICTION, which you apparently agree with.

Social programs/healthcare programs to treat it is WAY cheaper that judicial/prison programs to punish it. And it could be sold by private enterprise, creating jobs, taxed to pay for the treatment programs.

Cigarettes do the same - they are addictive and they kill. Alcohol is addictive and it kills, neither is illegal. 99.9% of the sales are above board, and they are easily taxed and controlled.

Open it ALL up. ALL drugs. What we are doing today is NOT working and is bankrupting the country, s well as destroying our social fabric already. Prisons are revolving doors and the punishment is not working either.

Keep doing the same things? You will keep seeing the same results.

So you are prepared to use society as a guinea pig to satisfy your ideology? Didn't we learn enough from China when opium was legal? Do you think China outlawed it just because they wanted to be mean?
http://www.historywiz.com/downfall.htm