skycop 0 #26 September 8, 2012 9mm has limitations I've observed first hand, (failed to penetrate a car door, when it really needed to). There are up-sides as well, less recoil, abilility to carry more rounds are two I like. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Born2Late 0 #27 September 8, 2012 Quote"Whats wrong with a 9mm?" You mean other than its being proven time & again to be woefully ineffective when most needed??? Nothing, I suppose. They're fine for punching paper with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #28 September 8, 2012 Quote9mm has limitations I've observed first hand, (failed to penetrate a car door, when it really needed to). There are up-sides as well, less recoil, abilility to carry more rounds are two I like. When is the last time an average citizen needed to penetrate a car door in a self defense situation?"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #29 September 8, 2012 QuoteQuote"Whats wrong with a 9mm?" You mean other than its being proven time & again to be woefully ineffective when most needed??? Nothing, I suppose. They're fine for punching paper with. Might have to do with shot placement too. http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120903/NEWS010703/309030021/92-year-old-Verona-man-shoots-intruder-at-home?odyssey=tab|mostpopular|text|FRONTPAGE MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertimeunc 0 #30 September 8, 2012 We have to qualify once every 2 years on the M9 as well, but I don't own one and wouldn't prefer to carry one. I'm a big fan of H&K as well as Glock, but if I had to pick just one to carry for the rest of my life, I'd take my Glock. They're death-and-taxes reliable and more accurate than probably 95% of people are capable of shooting. I honestly don't notice a difference in accuracy between my Glock and H&K. Love my H&K's, but they're pricey both in initial purchase and in upgrades. Bottom line, pick something that you shoot well and is comfortable to carry. If you can't shoot it well, then it's pointless to have, and if it's uncomfortable to carry, you'll eventually start leaving it at home. Good luck, and come home safely! The best things in life are dangerous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #31 September 8, 2012 http://www.glock.com/english/glock23_tech.htm The G23 is a good choice for the none 9mm folks, and not too small for good grip or too big for a CCW. Plus an up side is you can put a wolf conversion barrel in 9mm in the thing and with a G19 Magazine train cheaper. There are other newer makes starting to be able to do this as well. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,317 #32 September 9, 2012 If you're going back to Missus'sip.. isn't that an open carry state and if so; get what you want.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #33 September 9, 2012 I'll see if I can find the video again... There was one of an anesthesiologist presenting on gunshot victims, why they died, what did the most damage... Was really cool. The 15second summary was that handgun shots do most of the damage only where the bullet travels, so a larger round does more damage. The implication (I don't recall if he actually said it, so I won't claim that) was that rifle rounds can be smaller because the wound cavity ls larger (caused by the speed of the round). that was easier than I thought it would be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA&feature=youtu.be-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EFS4LIFE 0 #34 September 9, 2012 Hey brother get home safe. As to your topic man...my 2 cents. I was Active Army combat arms. Was in Kosovo 2000 and Iraq 2003. Have served as a police officer since, and am currently my departments firearm instructor. So I only offer this reply has I feel I have some useful experience. Bottom line find something you love. Find a great gun store, one that preferably has a range on site. Demo different weapons. Not going to get into the whole 9mm debate but I will say my department utilizes the .357 SIG P226. The 357. SIG round is a 9mm round with the power of a 40 caliber charge behind it. It does not have penetration issues. In fact it penetrates better than a slower moving 40 or 45. There was a well documented police shooting in Texas were the 40 failed to penetrate the cab of a semi but the other officer (different department) easily did with the .357 Ammo for it is slightly more expensive though. As to maximizing the damage cavity .45 ACP all the way though. However shot placement will always trump any wounding capability. Hell a .22 can be just as deadly if placed well. Personally I don't think one gun is enough though. Like the earlier poster stated I carry a Ruger LCR (he the LCP) most of the time due to the extreme light weight and easy concealment. I went with the LCR because it doubles as a back up on duty on my ankle and as a backup I like the revolver as it is hammerless in design (no snagging) and more reliable. No tap rack ready involved just pull trigger again. I found I left my SIG in my car (off duty) too much because of what I was wearing, and fuller size gun will show bulk, or be hard to hide, comfort, etc. If you are looking for one perfect gun for all scenarios it would be difficult to say. They are all different. I wouldn't mind owning a 1911 in .45 and in an ultra carry compact size though I will also agree with an earlier poster about the par Army training in regards to pistol for sure. If you aren't SF or MP or something where they do more training with them, then do yourself a favor and get some high quality pistol instruction. Our egos can easily get in the way. We know how to safely handle a hand gun, and we were in the military and all, but getting REALLY good with a pistol is a fine art. There are some great artists out there that can and love to teach even a combat vet as yourself a ton. At least they did me. The instructor course I went through was brutal (one round off the black you immediately went home) but I got 200 percent more accurate, and I thought I was a good shot before. PM me if you want any details on the SIGS since you said they are on your list. For example I hate the DAK trigger option they might try to sell you on. I am an asshole, but I am honest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #35 September 9, 2012 There are a few .45 autos out there that are compact enough for regular carry. I am partial to the ParaOrdnance P12. The P10 is smaller, but my hands have a difficult time with it. AMT makes a dandy little stainless .45 that you might seek out. When you carry next to the body regularly, stainless reduces maintenance worries. The P12 and P10 are available in stainless, but harder to find used. I am partial to saving a few bucks and getting used firearms. Afterall, it's virtually impossible to wear them out. It can be done, but it has to be your profession for the most part.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #36 September 9, 2012 Quote Quote Whats wrong with a 9mm? Other then that its not manly enough for you? I'm sure the following debate will be short, to the point, supported by facts and definitive. http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/handgun-stopping-power/ http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/handgun-stopping-power-page-2/---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyboy8501 0 #37 September 9, 2012 Exactly, after many jams and stovepipes... From a CLEAN and lubed gun.. haha I said lube... Anyways The M9 is not the best gun in the world and after being in afghanistan and seeing all the cool weapons that the foreign military personal gets issued, I'm just plain jealous.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #38 September 9, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Whats wrong with a 9mm? Other then that its not manly enough for you? I'm sure the following debate will be short, to the point, supported by facts and definitive. http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/handgun-stopping-power/ http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/handgun-stopping-power-page-2/ Science in the debate, gonna be fun to watch the arguments now. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Born2Late 0 #39 September 10, 2012 How many police shootings have to occur w/shots to center mass w/o effect??? No Thank You. The only nine I'd consider carrying, is the little Kahr PM9 (?). They are VERY tiny, & shoot well. The only thing is I get slide bite every time I shoot one. I've shot a CZ Po1 (?) a few times. It fit my hand perfectly. Nice little gun, but I wouldn't bet my life on one. To each his own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #40 September 10, 2012 QuoteIt fit my hand perfectly. Nice little gun, but I wouldn't bet my life on one. To each his own. I wouldn't bet my life on any gun...if I personally had to use one, chances are that I'm too close to death to get accurate odds.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #41 September 10, 2012 Question from a complete gun noob, Why is it that you actually need to carry concealed? Is it for future work, or just walking around?You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #42 September 10, 2012 QuoteQuestion from a complete gun noob, Why is it that you actually need to carry concealed? Is it for future work, or just walking around? I can think of plenty of reasons why, but if it's a legally available option, why not? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #43 September 10, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuestion from a complete gun noob, Why is it that you actually need to carry concealed? Is it for future work, or just walking around? I can think of plenty of reasons why, but if it's a legally available option, why not? I actually expected an intelligent response, sorry, i should have specified.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #44 September 10, 2012 Why do you think my response was not intelligent? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #45 September 10, 2012 In the US states that have enacted a CHL program the crime has gone down. So my question stands why not carry a concealed handgun if you have the legal option to do so? There plenty of other reasons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #46 September 10, 2012 QuoteSo my question stands why not carry a concealed handgun if you have the legal option to do so? Maybe he just doesn't like the risks and hassles associated. Maybe he's responsible enough to realize how irresponsible he could potentially be with it. Not everyone in every situation should own, let alone carry. Here, look at this fucking old fool. http://www.cnn.com/video/standard.html?hpt=hp_t3#/video/topvideos/2012/09/08/dnt-grandpa-shooting.kprc Wasn't responsible enough to KNOW what was down range of what he was shooting at. Fucking idiot.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #47 September 10, 2012 Forget the Glock, the Colt, all of the "Cult" handguns! Get you a Sig-Saur P-229 Equinox .40 Cal. Mid sized with the knock down power of a .45, check it out. If you ever shoot one of these Sig Saurs, you'll chunk rocks at the rest of em!-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyboy8501 0 #48 September 10, 2012 The definition of concealed is the weapon is partially or completely covered, I.E if I were to holster it in the open, it would still be considered concealed in my state. But mind will be completely hidden. I would rather have a fighting chance if I were to get robbed and with my training, I know how to react to certain situations. It's for my day to day life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyboy8501 0 #49 September 10, 2012 Well do you wear the 9.11 tactical gear? They have a clothing line that specifies in concealed carry and the shirts are not that bad either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyboy8501 0 #50 September 10, 2012 It's open carry for rifles, not handguns unless they remain in your home, ( you vehicle is an extension of your home there ) But for me, I'd rather be able to carry it on me, so if I'm ever walking down the beach or wherever, I have the ability to defend myself. Yea, you can be unrealistic and say just fight the guy, but if he has a gun, I'd rather have an advantage of surprise. And I SHOOT BACK! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
