Men's Rights

[kelpdiver 2]

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In the heat of a domestic dispute, a Chicago woman pelted her husband with cupcakes before police arrived to arrest her Saturday night, authorities said.

the poor man...I bet he had to go to a shelter.

[jakee 1,563]

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You would have more support for your serious statements if they weren't surounded by ludicrous ones.

Which ones are ludicrous?

You don't know? Wow.

I thought you were being intentionally hyperbolic.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[lawrocket 3]

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Why should a man have to pay for a child he doesn't want when a woman tells him she took her pill and she didn't? The woman gets to choose whether to have the kid and the man gets to go to prison if he refuses to pay.

Because he’s not paying for her. He’s paying for the kid. The guy has a choice of whether to knock up a woman. A woman has a choice as to whether to keep that kid or not. She tells a guy she’s on the pill? Yeah. Believe her. Sack it or whack it is simple advice.

What about the child? The child was a free being in another stage of life. It wasn’t imprisoned by a body of flesh but was freed by a body of light and free to move through the heavens where there were no questions but only answers. There was no darkness but only light. There was no weakness but only strength. But they had to fuck and bring that kid down here.

It is well settled that in life, he who consents to an act is not wronged by it. He who takes the benefit must bear the burden. Things happen in the ordinary course of nature and the ordinary habits of life. In other words, you are responsible for that which you have brought.

Some dude is out for a night of fun? It’s well known to all the possible consequences of that night. So one must complain about this? The unfairness? Let’s say you are a car racer, but your seatbelting system is a bit dicey and prone to failures. You could be left with lifelong troubles. You know this. Do you sit out the race? Or do you say, “Screw it! It won’t happen to me.”

Yes, we all enter into this with knowledge of the consequences. The rules are set up the way they are. Want to avoid child support? Get custody. Can’t get custody? Work towards it.

I can tell you this: here in Cali, child support is set up by a mathematical formula. There isn’t discretion to go against it. It’s based a lot on disparity of income. Same as spousal support.

If the woman makes more, guess who’s on the hook for spousal support. How about child support? Same thing. You make $2k per month and the mother makes $5k per month. You have visitation with the kid from Friday-Sunday every other weekend. Guess who owes child support. Yep – she does.

My experience with this is that the preference goes to the mother because the situation is almost ALWAYS unequal. Dad’s working 12 hour days? Yep. Kids gonna be with mom unless she’s working 14 hours a day.

Child support is intended to support the child. That child had ZERO choice in this matter. You breed them you feed them.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[quade 4]

Anyway... Like I said.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Shotgun 1]

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Good for you, but that's a pretty shabby benefit for a lifetime of slavery.

Do you feel like you're living a lifetime of slavery?

(Not just you; I'm curious if any of the guys posting in here feel that way.)

[quade 4]

It's important to separate the real issues from the hyperbole.

The word "slavery" in this case is clearly hyperbole, however, that doesn't mean there aren't real issues.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[SivaGanesha 2]

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It's important to separate the real issues from the hyperbole.

The word "slavery" in this case is clearly hyperbole, however, that doesn't mean there aren't real issues.

People's choices of words are IMHO significant even when those choices admittedly do involve a level of hyperbole.

For example, I often hear men--outside of this thread--using very submissive language to describe their relationships with women, referring to their female partners with terms like "The Boss" or "She Who Must Be Obeyed". Such terms may be used with a sense of love and/or humor and/or hyperbole. But I think it is nevertheless significant that I never hear women using the reverse terms to refer to their male partners--one never hears the women referring to their male partners as "The Boss" or "He Who Must Be Obeyed", etc.

So, yes, certain choices of words are clearly not meant to be taken 100% literally but the fact that a particular word was chosen still communicates something significant about the underlying human relationships.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[deltron80 0]

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Good for you, but that's a pretty shabby benefit for a lifetime of slavery.

Do you feel like you're living a lifetime of slavery?

(Not just you; I'm curious if any of the guys posting in here feel that way.)

I admit I tend to be hyperbolic to get my point across, but I stand by the sentiment of everything I've written.

I'm personally not a slave of any woman. I'm free and I intend to stay that way.

[SivaGanesha 2]

Many of the examples you cite are related to the choices that men make--as opposed to specific laws that restrict the rights of men. Thus it becomes a bit harder to build a movement demanding certain rights--because the men already enjoy those rights, but may need to make different life choices in today's world.

For example, if men are committing suicide at a much higher rate than women, that is unfortunate--but it is hard to know what specific right men need to demand to rectify this situation.

The women's movement was very strong because it was fueled by some very specific things that women could and did demand.

For a men's movement to be strong it would need IMHO to formulate some clearer demands rather than just enumerating a list of areas where the results achieved by men are disappointing as compared with women.

There actually WAS an extraordinarily strong men's rights movement in this country at one time, although it wasn't generally referred to by that name. I'm referring, of course, to the movement opposing the military draft in Vietnam. Once that objective was achieved in early 1973, however, that movement came to an end.

There definitely ARE areas in which men are falling behind women but to form a strong men's rights movement I think men would need to articulate more clearly what they wish to change.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[deltron80 0]

True, but we have to begin by changing the awareness and perception of men. Most people aren't even aware of these issues. The notion that "men are people too" is somehow controversial.

If you want specific laws, we can start with completely overhauling family law and eliminating the bias against men in our criminal courts, schools, and workplaces.

If the genders are going to be equal under the law we need to get gender considerations out of law completely.

While we're at it, let's put women on the front lines. That should cut down on war.

[kelpdiver 2]

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While we're at it, let's put women on the front lines. That should cut down on war.

the continued decision to keep women off the front lines was made by men.

[kelpdiver 2]

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For example, if men are committing suicide at a much higher rate than women, that is unfortunate--but it is hard to know what specific right men need to demand to rectify this situation.

Men attempt suicide at a much lower rate than women. But they succeed far more often, so I support the equalizer will be to instruct women on the more effective methods.

[quade 4]

It's also possible the motivations for the act are different. It may be that more women use the act as a last ditch cry for help, whereas, due to societal norms more men feel they can't cry out for help one last time and therefore commit to a more foolproof method.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kawisixer01 0]

I think the one I find most offensive, and one I see repeatedly is the way that the media and society portrays fathers. I continually see shows and movies portray men as bumbling idiots who are poor parents, incapable of properly caring for children without messing up. The idea of a man being able to care for children successfully apparently needs to be made a comedy. If you pay attention to it you will notice it more and more. I find it rather disappointing. I know a number of guys, some who are SINGLE FATHERS, and others who are just the primary care givers to the family, who are wonderful well adjusted parents. It seems like it's ok for Hollywood to portray fathers in a poor light, yet in reality I see a whole lot of worthless women who are far from being good parents. Often when children are killed or abused it is done by a mother. I can personally name off four or five guys I know well who have full custody of children due to the mother running off and literally abandoning the children. So much for "motherly instincts" huh? If women were continually portrayed in this way there would be picket lines.

[Shotgun 1]

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I'm personally not a slave of any woman. I'm free and I intend to stay that way.

OK. So is there another way that you feel your rights are being infringed because you're a man? (Again, open to anyone here.)

I don't want to imply that there are no issues here. I think the struggle for "fairness" will always be around, and there is rarely a perfect solution. I feel fortunate, as a woman, to not feel generally disadvantaged in my time, but I also don't see men as being generally disadvantaged.

[deltron80 0]

Exactly...we are apparently a nation of Homer Simpsons.

[deltron80 0]

Hmm well I'd like to marry and have kids some day, but given the state of family law I'll never be able to do it.

I'd adopt instead, but I'm not allowed to do that as a man.

Hell I can't even date anymore. Too expensive!

If I ever get arrested my penalty will be much harsher than a woman's.

Are these real enough examples for you?

[TriGirl 333]

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True, but we have to begin by changing the awareness and perception of men.

"We" should first change some issues/ways by which men perceive themselves. Try being that professional, military woman. I've been (and have seen my female peers be) that opportunity for a man to be the "military dependent" -- either with me at my duty station abroad, or at his own home, collecting some serious benefits. In my experience, guys run away from that scenario.
(note -- this is a very simplistic, broad generalization of the myriad of reasons relationships fail, but this is part of it).

Instead, everyone wonders what's wrong with me if I have so much going for me but haven't managed to land a husband. Yep, I must be fundamentally flawed.

So, I say that those who have an issue with how men are perceived should start with the one in the mirror.

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While we're at it, let's put women on the front lines. That should cut down on war.

No, it doesn't. That was one of the main agruments against opening combat jobs to women. When women "started coming home in body bags" in the wars of this century, you did not see the popular outcry so many predicted. I appreciated that all of the fallen tend to receive similar recognition, regardless of gender.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[billvon 3,070]

>Hmm well I'd like to marry and have kids some day, but given the state of family law
>I'll never be able to do it.

Well, you can't have kids yourself, but that's your fault for not having a uterus. (I assume you're not blaming women for that.)

You can certainly get married and have kids with a woman if you choose to do so. If you want to marry a man, you can do that in a few states and then adopt.

>Hell I can't even date anymore. Too expensive!

If you can skydive you can date!

>If I ever get arrested my penalty will be much harsher than a woman's.

I doubt that. (Fortunately there's a way to not receive _any_ penalties that is 100% your choice.)

[jclalor 12]

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>Men are perceived as inherently violent, perverts, rapists, etc, yet are by far more
>often the victims of violent crime. Who cares? They're just men right? Men's lives are
>considered worthless and disposable in our society.

Do you seriously believe that?

As a nurse working with children, The VAST majority of parents refuse to have male nursing assistants care for their female children. I have never heard of the family of a male refusing to have a female CNA care for their child. Any time I have to do an invasive procedure on a female, I will talk a female co-worker into doing it, I don't need the grief.

Another male bashing favorite these days are commercials, the majority of men are betrayed as idiots while the women are the ones with the brains keeping them out of trouble..

[deltron80 0]

The Western woman has jumped the shark. Worn out, she looks around and asks "where have all the good men gone?"

They're done with the game. They've gone their own way.

[billvon 3,070]

>They're done with the game.

If so - smart cookies, they are.

>They've gone their own way.

Most people do.

[quade 4]

Actually, "western women" don't need men in their lives at all. The only things a woman in western society can't do that a man can are pee standing up and grow a beard and even at that there are exceptions.

For the most part men simply aren't required in modern western civilization.

This is your real problem. If they aren't required, then for the most part, they won't be "tolerated" either. Anything a man does that is upsetting to women, in any way, is grounds to be shown the door. They don't have to "tolerate" our idiosyncratic behaviors because we aren't a protected minority.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

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The Western woman has jumped the shark. Worn out, she looks around and asks "where have all the good men gone?"

They're done with the game. They've gone their own way.

i predict great success for you in the dating scene!

[Shotgun 1]

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Hmm well I'd like to marry and have kids some day, but given the state of family law I'll never be able to do it.

I hear that men sometimes get a bad deal in divorce court, but I don't have any personal experience with this. My parents were divorced, but I don't think my dad feels like the courts screwed him over. Same thing with my step-dad, who divorced his first wife. I've been divorced myself (no kids), and I didn't take anything from my ex. And I know a lot of happily married couples with children (many of them grown children now), so it is quite possible to have that. Of course nothing is guaranteed in this world, but having a strong relationship/family is largely up to you - who you choose and how much effort you put into making it work.

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I'd adopt instead, but I'm not allowed to do that as a man.

Single men can adopt. It is generally harder for single people to get approved, but it is possible.

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Hell I can't even date anymore. Too expensive!

There are a lot of independent women these days who don't expect a man to pay for everything. So this depends on who you choose to date. This would also be an important consideration if you are eventually wanting to get married.

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If I ever get arrested my penalty will be much harsher than a woman's.

This may be true. I do think that police and courts tend to be a little bit easier on women. But then, aside from the possibility of being falsely accused of something, you could choose to never get arrested.