kelpdiver 2 #51 September 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteI also find it interesting that you do not want our voting process to be as free of fraud as possible How many times are we going to cover this subject and ignore reality? Mechanical vote counters have a huge error rate in comparison - over 1%. And these tend to be in the poor districts. If you really want our elections to be as fair and accurate as possible, then you should insist that these all be replaced with new, touch screen voting systems. And then if you really want to further eliminate fraud potential, you take the contract away from Diebold and replace it with an openly developed product that includes vote verification after election day. But going back to Florida - Bush won by .01% of the vote. We got the most accurate count we could get under the circumstances, but the reality of the potential error in counting means than the probability that he actually did win is still basically 50.01%. (And this ignores any issues around the butterfly ballot or voter purges...we're just talking about cast ballots) We are not talking about errors We are talking about fraud No, we're talking about fair and accurate elections. Put simply- we want to know that the candidate that wins a given state actually got more legal voter. These are 198 potentially illegal votes. But the early attempt this summer to delist 2900 voters had far more false hits in it. And while these are dealing in the 100s...a 1% count error in Florida is 50,000 votes. So again...FFS, why are you dealing with hundreds and ignoring the problem with tens of thousands? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #52 September 30, 2012 QuoteSo again...FFS, why are you dealing with hundreds and ignoring the problem with tens of thousands? Because it's easier to whip up the hype about "voter fraud" as opposed to "errors". And it's pretty well documented that the ID requirement will affect more voters in the demographics that tend to vote Democrat. Which is why you see more Republicans getting all worked up over this."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #53 September 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteSo again...FFS, why are you dealing with hundreds and ignoring the problem with tens of thousands? Because it's easier to whip up the hype about "voter fraud" as opposed to "errors". And it's pretty well documented that the ID requirement will affect more voters in the demographics that tend to vote Democrat. Which is why you see more Republicans getting all worked up over this. We all know this. I just wonder if they'll ever own up to it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #54 September 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo again...FFS, why are you dealing with hundreds and ignoring the problem with tens of thousands? Because it's easier to whip up the hype about "voter fraud" as opposed to "errors". And it's pretty well documented that the ID requirement will affect more voters in the demographics that tend to vote Democrat. Which is why you see more Republicans getting all worked up over this. We all know this. I just wonder if they'll ever own up to it. As soon as you provide numbers and reasons why an ID is so impossibly hard to get. You leave me to assume that great numbers of these folks are simply not able to get an ID but still are able to register to vote. What might be a valid reason for that? I know that some may just simply be unable to get an ID and that's the way it is, but it would seem to me that it might be a statistically insignificant number. And are you sure that all of these "no-ID-getting" folks will vote Democrat? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #55 September 30, 2012 Quote As soon as you provide numbers and reasons why an ID is so impossibly hard to get. You leave me to assume that great numbers of these folks are simply not able to get an ID but still are able to register to vote. What might be a valid reason for that? I know that some may just simply be unable to get an ID and that's the way it is, but it would seem to me that it might be a statistically insignificant number. And are you sure that all of these "no-ID-getting" folks will vote Democrat? It's not "impossibly hard." It's just difficult. Most of these folks don't drive (no license, no ID). So they have to walk, beg a ride or take public transportation (if it's available). It's already been noted (in one of these threads, not sure which one) that the average distance is 17 miles (I think anyway, any correction is welcome). So they have to spend a while getting there, and a significant amount of time in line to get the ID. And they are already registered to vote. Some of them voted for FDR (or his opponent). The difficulty of getting an ID may be enough of a problem that some of these types would decide it's not worth the effort to get it and they won't vote. And these people tend to vote more for the Dems than the Repubs. I don't know the numbers, but I'm going to make a guess that there's more than 200 of them in Florida. I see it as the cure for the "problem" is going to disenfranchise more legit voters than it will stop fraudulent voters. And it's being pushed hardest by those who would benefit most from the legit voters not voting."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveJonathan 0 #56 September 30, 2012 17 miles average distance is correct. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #57 September 30, 2012 Quote17 miles average distance is correct. 17 miles distance to the DMV? From where? If we are talking "hundreds" of folks I seriously doubt that the DMV is 17 miles from them. Maybe a few folks living way the hell out in the boonies, but those are more likely to be racist, bible-thumping Republican voters. If the closest DMV, in say Chicago or Nashville, is 17 miles away from a citizen of that city there are more problems there than voting rights. Is the 17 miles the average distance to the DMV for all American citizens? ...or just the ones that vote for Dems? Just asking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveJonathan 0 #58 September 30, 2012 Not hundreds - thousands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #59 September 30, 2012 QuoteNot hundreds - thousands. source? with demographic data and maybe a map showing locations of gov't ID providers? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
