Top 10% provide 70% of federal income.

[RonD1120 62]

The American dream is to become rich. Why do we want to punish this incentive? The rich pay the vast majority of all income tax.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jul/10/cbo-rich-pay-outsized-share-taxes/

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/07/taxes-and-rich

http://www.businessinsider.com/who-pays-taxes-2012-8?op=1

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[quade 4]

Quote

The American dream is to become rich.

Your argument starts off badly.

"The American Dream" is not to be "rich." At least, that was never the way it was described to me. When I was growing up it was described as being able to afford your own home, white picket fence, two cars in every garage, chicken in every pot.

When did that change?

When did "The American Dream" go from aspiring to not be poor to being in the top 10% of income?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

The American dream is to become rich.

Your argument starts off badly.

"The American Dream" is not to be "rich." At least, that was never the way it was described to me. When I was growing up it was described as being being to afford your own home, white picket fence, two cars in every garage, chicken in every pot.

When did that change?

When did "The American Dream" go from aspiring to not be poor to being in the top 10% of income?

Hmm

This must be part of the Obama Admin's "new normal"

(PS, I am talking about your post, Not RonD1120's post)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

The rich pay the vast majority of all income tax.

As they should, because they have the vast majority of the nation's wealth.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[RonD1120 62]

Quote

When did "The American Dream" go from aspiring to not be poor to being in the top 10% of income?

In my family, it was as soon as we realized what the "Jones'" had. We never beat them but, I learned to reach beyond my grasp.

The aftermath of the Vietnam War turned me into a liberal. By 1978 I realized that the liberal philosophy was a crock. It was socialistic BS. That is what we fought against in SEA.

If you want something, you have to work for it. If you don't get it, it is no one's fault, except maybe your own. You have to pick yourself up and go for it again.

"Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes you choose between the two."

The redistribution of wealth will kill the spirit of the populace.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Dean358 0]

Quote

When did "The American Dream" go from aspiring to not be poor to being in the top 10% of income?

When our culture became poisoned with so-called "reality TV."

And if I may, when did the "American Dream" go from leading an ethical life, helping those less fortunate than you, developing new technologies and fundamental scientific break throughs, writing music and literature, creating art and generally making the world a better place for your having been on it to wanting a bunch of cameras to follow you around 24/7 in the hopes of becoming so "famous" that your "personal brand" will catapult you into the top 1% of income? (Top 10%? Feh.)

www.wci.nyc

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

Quote

When did "The American Dream" go from aspiring to not be poor to being in the top 10% of income?

In my family, it was as soon as we realized what the "Jones'" had. We never beat them but, I learned to reach beyond my grasp.

The aftermath of the Vietnam War turned me into a liberal. By 1978 I realized that the liberal philosophy was a crock. It was socialistic BS. That is what we fought against in SEA.

If you want something, you have to work for it. If you don't get it, it is no one's fault, except maybe your own. You have to pick yourself up and go for it again.

"Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes you choose between the two."

The redistribution of wealth will kill the spirit of the populace.

Thanks to the non-progressive nature of payroll taxes and sales taxes, in addition to the favorable rules that the rich have bought themselves from the legislatures, the top 1% actually pay a smaller fraction of their income in total taxes than does the next 10%. Romney is a prime example of this.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[airdvr 210]

"Tax the rich, feed the poor. Till there are no rich no more." Ten Years After

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzrUqAtUcpU

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[champu 1]

Actually, I think laying out what percentage of government receipts you wanted to come from each percentile group is a good thing to decide first in terms of selling your tax plan to people. You can point to the high income section and say, "we're keeping the vast bulk of the burdon up here" and point to the rest of the chart and say, "but we're spreading at least something all the way around." Then you decide how much you want to take in and you set your tax code accordingly to achieve both.

If you can't make your budget work (including reasonable deficits and surpluses when appropriate) without busting the burdon distrobution or burying one of the groups then maybe you're trying to do too much. I think this would be a much more realistic promise than the stupid pledge Republican congress people have taken to never "raise" taxes no matter what.

The top 10% footing 70% of the bill might be about right, though I would probably specify more groups than just two. What shouldn't happen is the burdon of each group shouldn't be changing drastically everytime someone new steps into office. That's what quickly devolves into partisan bickering.

[weekender 0]

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The rich pay the vast majority of all income tax.

As they should, because they have the vast majority of the nation's wealth.

honest question so dont attack me. do you believe that the wealth is collective and not individual? the way you worded it you seem to imply it belongs to the nation and not individuals.

to be fair, i will give my opinion. i believe each individual creates his own wealth. i understand the nation as a whole helps in that through infastructure, education, protection etc...but its not the nations wealth, its the individuals. i also believe in order to have a civil society we need taxes and support a proggressive system.

just curious if you chose your wording for effect or it reflects your true feelings.

"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

"The American Dream" is not to be "rich." At least, that was never the way it was described to me. When I was growing up it was described as being able to afford your own home, white picket fence, two cars in every garage, chicken in every pot.

That's not a dream. That's an attainable goal.

Quote

When did "The American Dream" go from aspiring to not be poor to being in the top 10% of income?

That's the dream. Of course, now the American Dream is to have your ass covered by the 1 percent. Or ten percent. Whatever. Someone else.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

"The American Dream" is not to be "rich." At least, that was never the way it was described to me. When I was growing up it was described as being able to afford your own home, white picket fence, two cars in every garage, chicken in every pot.

That's not a dream. That's an attainable goal.

Quote

When did "The American Dream" go from aspiring to not be poor to being in the top 10% of income?

That's the dream. Of course, now the American Dream is to have your ass covered by the 1 percent. Or ten percent. Whatever. Someone else.

IE; the new normal

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 4]

Quote

Quote

"The American Dream" is not to be "rich." At least, that was never the way it was described to me. When I was growing up it was described as being able to afford your own home, white picket fence, two cars in every garage, chicken in every pot.

That's not a dream. That's an attainable goal.

Not in a large percentage of the world our immigrant forefathers came from. It is "the dream" that brought most of them here from whatever shithole existence they previously lived in. Except, of course, slaves. For them aspiring to simply live in a decent home was a completely unattainable goal.

I dunno, maybe your lineage is different than mine. Maybe nobody in your family tree fled a potato famine. Maybe your entire family tree is filled with members of the wealthy who came here for different reasons. Mine came here to work and sweat and toil in fields on farms so they could just have a nice life. Not be the top 10%. Just lead decent lives.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Southern_Man 0]

As usual with these topics we start with a very poor foundation in focusing just on one type of federal tax (income taxes). In 2010, the last year which I found data for, Income taxes provided 42% of federal revenue.

Payroll taxes provided 40% of federal revenue.

Unless we are looking at all taxes the discussion is really not worth having.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[kallend 2,027]

www.nytimes.com/2012/10/14/opinion/sunday/the-self-destruction-of-the-1-percent.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,027]

Quote

Quote

Quote

The rich pay the vast majority of all income tax.

As they should, because they have the vast majority of the nation's wealth.

honest question so dont attack me. do you believe that the wealth is collective and not individual? the way you worded it you seem to imply it belongs to the nation and not individuals.

to be fair, i will give my opinion. i believe each individual creates his own wealth. i understand the nation as a whole helps in that through infastructure, education, protection etc...but its not the nations wealth, its the individuals. i also believe in order to have a civil society we need taxes and support a proggressive system.

just curious if you chose your wording for effect or it reflects your true feelings.

Both. The wealth of the nation is the sum of the wealth of its citizens.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,998]

> It was socialistic BS.

Don't you enjoy the socialist entitlement programs that you benefit from?

>The redistribution of wealth will kill the spirit of the populace.

Are you still participating in it?

[funjumper101 15]

Are you still a practicing Socialist? In other words, are you collecting still Social Security and using Medicare Benefits?

You talk a lot of smack about "socialism", while being the absolute perfect example of a being a practicing socialist. You are collecting government benefits far in excess of your contributions to the same system. My tax dollars are being "redistributed" into your bank account.

Keep up the hypocritical BS. When the time comes to meet your maker, you will have a lot of explaining to do.

Here is a bit of homework. Before the Social Security system was implemented, the leading cause of death in the elderly was malnutrition/starvation. True or false?

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

When the time comes to meet your maker, you will have a lot of explaining to do.

no surprise here with the equating of politics and religion

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

Quote

The American dream is to become rich.

Your argument starts off badly.

"The American Dream" is not to be "rich."

The "American Dream" also includes retiring and ceasing to work once you're old. Doing so with neither a drop in quality of living nor defined benefit pension plan means being "rich" when by "rich" we mean having a million current dollars in non-housing assets.

Quote

At least, that was never the way it was described to me. When I was growing up it was described as being able to afford your own home, white picket fence, two cars in every garage, chicken in every pot.

To continue receiving the median household income of $52K in retirement that means accumulating $1.3M from which you can draw 4% annually.

Someplace pleasant and therefore expensive where the number is $75K it means $1.9M.

With optimistic assumptions (it doesn't become means tested, benefits increase at less than the rate of inflation, you and your formerly working spouse both die at the same time) the best case scenario with Social Security allows it to provide 1/3 of your benefits.

$850K - $1.25M both round to $1M which most people consider "wealthy"

This ignores the cost of long term care. With the average nursing home room running $70K/year you probably need more.

Quote

When did "The American Dream" go from aspiring to not be poor to being in the top 10% of income?

1. When the average job stopped coming with a defined benefit pension plan.

In 1975 88% of private company employees and 98% of public employees ad defined benefit plans.

By 2005 the numbers were 33% and 92%.

or

2. When the economy broke meaning our children can't earn enough to live middle class lives on there own. Both our kids have under-graduate degrees. The one who graduated summa cum laude doesn't have a paying job and is back in school. The other one with a job using her degree only earns as much in nominal dollars as I did taking a year off between junior and senior years of college 20 years ago which is 37% less in real money. It's 61% less in inflation adjusted terms than I was earning two years into my career which is about as much time has elapsed between her moving from intern to regular employee.

More money than you want to spend as a single person (take vacations with chartered helicopters for skiing and jumping, own European cars and motorcycles, dine out seven days a week) is barely enough to land a double wide trailer for yourself and wife plus help the kids live less than the American dream in one bedroom apartments with health insurance (assuming that you're also saving for retirement to sustain that lifestyle and carrying enough insurance that the rest of the family will if you meet an untimely demise).

[wmw999 2,452]

Quote

In my family, it was as soon as we realized what the "Jones'" had.

And when most people lived in towns, and got their news from newspapers, what the Jones' had was generally not all that much more than most other people you knew.

As radio, then TV, then internet came, with the "how to be an expensive bride" and "what other people have" shows, well, the definition of "Jones" expanded to include a whole lot more people.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[RonD1120 62]

Quote

> It was socialistic BS.

Don't you enjoy the socialist entitlement programs that you benefit from?

>The redistribution of wealth will kill the spirit of the populace.

Are you still participating in it?

You all seem to overlook the fact that Social Security and Medicare require a work history for a minimum number of quarters.

Welfare, food stamps and Obamaphone only requires an application.

Work history is a key concept.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

See post #22 above.

Oh, and since you are not a Christian, you have no idea what my meeting with Jesus is going to be. However, I do. Entrance in God's heaven is not based on works. I hope you realize that truth and repent before it's too late for you.

Jesus took away the sin of the world. You must accept the gift to receive it.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

And, none of the elderly in my family tree died of malnutrition. They knew how to make their work and grow their food. They also brewed their own beer and made their own wine. Alcoholism was a bit rough on our clan.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 2,998]

>You all seem to overlook the fact that Social Security and Medicare require a
>work history for a minimum number of quarters.

Ah. So you feel you are entitled to your socialist benefits.