Top 10% provide 70% of federal income.

[Southern_Man 0]

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I just spoke to a SSA representative.

It is too late for me now, age 70. I was never salaried as a minister. I have always been an independent servant for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I'm not 100% sure what this means. If you were receiving money that you were paying taxes on, then all those tax benefits were available to you.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[RonD1120 62]

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I just spoke to a SSA representative.

It is too late for me now, age 70. I was never salaried as a minister. I have always been an independent servant for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I'm not 100% sure what this means. If you were receiving money that you were paying taxes on, then all those tax benefits were available to you.

I supported my ministry as a professional parachutist. In 1994 I joined the corporate world as an assessment counselor. I pretty much stayed in the corporate counseling field until I retired in 2009.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 3,068]

>Definition of SOCIALIST

>1: one who advocates or practices socialism

You have just defined yourself as a socialist. You participate in a socialist program.

[rushmc 23]

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>Definition of SOCIALIST

>1: one who advocates or practices socialism

You have just defined yourself as a socialist. You participate in a socialist program.

I am sure you know this but

It is much different being drug into a program than it is advocating for a program

But, in the end, all that is being done here is clouding the real issue with stupid semantics

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[funjumper101 15]

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>Definition of SOCIALIST

>1: one who advocates or practices socialism

You have just defined yourself as a socialist. You participate in a socialist program.

I am sure you know this but

It is much different being drug into a program than it is advocating for a program

But, in the end, all that is being done here is clouding the real issue with stupid semantics

Ron has the option to opt out of a socialist system. He rails against "socialism" while fully participating in the most socialist program in the US Government. If Ron was consistent in his actions, he would not accept benefits from those programs that are against what are socialist programs. In other words, he is a hypocrite of the highest order.

No amount of right wing conservative bullshit can alter that fact.

[Southern_Man 0]

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I just spoke to a SSA representative.

It is too late for me now, age 70. I was never salaried as a minister. I have always been an independent servant for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I'm not 100% sure what this means. If you were receiving money that you were paying taxes on, then all those tax benefits were available to you.

I supported my ministry as a professional parachutist. In 1994 I joined the corporate world as an assessment counselor. I pretty much stayed in the corporate counseling field until I retired in 2009.

well, if you did not have income to your ministry (i.e. you were self-supported) then it didn't matter anyway. You could not opt out of any social security taxes, because you had no taxable income from that employment.

I have no idea if this was an ordained ministry or not, that would also be a factor.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[rushmc 23]

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>Definition of SOCIALIST

>1: one who advocates or practices socialism

You have just defined yourself as a socialist. You participate in a socialist program.

I am sure you know this but

It is much different being drug into a program than it is advocating for a program

But, in the end, all that is being done here is clouding the real issue with stupid semantics

Ron has the option to opt out of a socialist system. He rails against "socialism" while fully participating in the most socialist program in the US Government. If Ron was consistent in his actions, he would not accept benefits from those programs that are against what are socialist programs. In other words, he is a hypocrite of the highest order.

No amount of right wing conservative bullshit can alter that fact.

You should really go to someone like him for your anger issues

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,106]

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>Definition of SOCIALIST

>1: one who advocates or practices socialism

You have just defined yourself as a socialist. You participate in a socialist program.

I am sure you know this but

It is much different being drug into a program than it is advocating for a program

But, in the end, all that is being done here is clouding the real issue with stupid semantics

Ron has the option to opt out of a socialist system. He rails against "socialism" while fully participating in the most socialist program in the US Government. If Ron was consistent in his actions, he would not accept benefits from those programs that are against what are socialist programs. In other words, he is a hypocrite of the highest order.

No amount of right wing conservative bullshit can alter that fact.

You should really go to someone like him for your anger issues

Having read a lot of Ron's rants about Obama, liberals, socialism, etc., he's the last person who should be giving anger management counseling.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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>Definition of SOCIALIST

>1: one who advocates or practices socialism

You have just defined yourself as a socialist. You participate in a socialist program.

I am sure you know this but

It is much different being drug into a program than it is advocating for a program

But, in the end, all that is being done here is clouding the real issue with stupid semantics

Ron has the option to opt out of a socialist system. He rails against "socialism" while fully participating in the most socialist program in the US Government. If Ron was consistent in his actions, he would not accept benefits from those programs that are against what are socialist programs. In other words, he is a hypocrite of the highest order.

No amount of right wing conservative bullshit can alter that fact.

You should really go to someone like him for your anger issues

Having read a lot of Ron's rants about Obama, liberals, socialism, etc., he's the last person who should be giving anger management counseling.

You would benefit as well IMO

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Southern_Man 0]

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insurance plans are not socialist.

The redistribution of SS premiums from higher earners to lower ones is socialist, but someone in the giving side isn't even getting back what they gave.

Insurance plans create property rights and ownership. Pretty sure the Supreme Court decision in Flemming v. Nestor means that Social Security and its benefits are not an insurance program, although it has quite a few similar characteristics. (Note: it also has some similar characteristics to a Ponzi scheme, but it is not a Ponzi scheme either).

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[kallend 2,106]

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insurance plans are not socialist.

The redistribution of SS premiums from higher earners to lower ones is socialist, but someone in the giving side isn't even getting back what they gave.

Insurance plans create property rights and ownership. Pretty sure the Supreme Court decision in Flemming v. Nestor means that Social Security and its benefits are not an insurance program.

Quite correct, and the payroll tax is just that, a TAX and not a premium.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,068]

>It is much different being drug into a program than it is advocating for a program

Agreed. He is not a socialist advocate; merely a user of a socialist entitlement program. He could refuse the money but he prefers to use it, since he feels entitled to it. (Paid into the system and all that.)

And there's nothing wrong with that; lots of people do it. I just find it funny that he is so opposed to others doing what he does.

[rushmc 23]

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>It is much different being drug into a program than it is advocating for a program

Agreed. He is not a socialist advocate; merely a user of a socialist entitlement program. He could refuse the money but he prefers to use it, since he feels entitled to it. (Paid into the system and all that.)

And there's nothing wrong with that; lots of people do it. I just find it funny that he is so opposed to others doing what he does.

I think you twist this a bit

I dont like the system but it is here.
I have paid into it so I will use it

However
Mr Obama would expand all of these types of programs

THAT I am against....

as we are already in too deep

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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A portion of all wealth is collective, but not all of it. Bill Gates got rich 'on his own', but he did not write all the code in all his products. WORKERS wrote the code. He helped to build the company and it was his idea. MANY MANY others helped him achieve that wealth. There is no magic number of what is collective and what is 'earned individually'.

Have you ever worked in a software startup? Gates did in fact write a shitload of code in the day (or stole from CPM, take your pick) when MS was a tiny company that first wrote a version of basic, and later an operating system. Like all startups that become successful, the founders tend to switch to a guiding role, and make a lot more money. They created the company...usually overworking and getting paid less. Same story with Zuck. He didn't do $10B worth of work, but he did make it happen.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Thank you, someone else who gets it.

oh, they get it. But it's inconvenient to the line of attack they'd prefer to use, so they're staying as far clear as possible.

[regulator 0]

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"The American Dream" is not to be "rich." At least, that was never the way it was described to me. When I was growing up it was described as being able to afford your own home, white picket fence, two cars in every garage, chicken in every pot.

That's not a dream. That's an attainable goal.

Not in a large percentage of the world our immigrant forefathers came from. It is "the dream" that brought most of them here from whatever shithole existence they previously lived in. Except, of course, slaves. For them aspiring to simply live in a decent home was a completely unattainable goal.

I dunno, maybe your lineage is different than mine. Maybe nobody in your family tree fled a potato famine. Maybe your entire family tree is filled with members of the wealthy who came here for different reasons. Mine came here to work and sweat and toil in fields on farms so they could just have a nice life. Not be the top 10%. Just lead decent lives.

--------------------------------------------------------
Lets be straight about this...this is YOUR INTERPRETATION of what the american dream is. Its not like every year the billvons get together and discuss how to indoctrinate new members telling them each time what the billvon american dream really is. Its up to each one of us to figure that out ourselves and to not be limited by what YOU think the american dream is.

[quade 4]

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Lets be straight about this...this is YOUR INTERPRETATION of what the american dream is. Its not like every year the billvons get together and discuss how to indoctrinate new members telling them each time what the billvon american dream really is. Its up to each one of us to figure that out ourselves and to not be limited by what YOU think the american dream is.

Ok, what's YOUR interpretation of "The American Dream"?

Btw, are you sure you understand who you're talking to? I don't mean that in any "oh I'm better than you" sort of way, it's just...I'm not billvon. Never have been.

I think you owe him an apology.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Bolas 5]

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The only way a minister can opt out is if they are a member of a church organization that provides a retirement plan. I was not such a member.

This is not correct information. As long as you are opposed to the socialistic programs based on religious principles you can opt out. Here is the ministerial exception for Social Security: http://www.crown.org/Library/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=690

Here is the relevant statment that you have to affirm:

I certify that I am conscientiously opposed to, or because of my religious principles I am opposed to, the acceptance (for services I perform as a minister, member of religious order not under a vow of poverty, or a Christian Science practitioner) of any public insurance that makes payments in the event of death, disability, old age, or retirement; or that, makes payments toward the cost of, or provides services for, medical care. (Public insurance includes insurance systems established by the Social Security Act.)…Under penalties of perjury, I declare that I have examined this application and to the best of my knowledge and belief it is true and correct.

Hmm. I'm a Dudist priest, and I'm conscientiously opposed to the Social Security Ponzi scam and i'm sure I could find insurance for less than what I pay into it and Medicare...

Can you only exempt your religious income?

(Edited to add) Just read the article, religious services only. Maybe if I worked for a religious institution?

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Southern_Man 0]

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(Edited to add) Just read the article, religious services only. Maybe if I worked for a religious institution?

Yes, religious service only. I believe your ordination allows you to perform weddings in NC, though.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[RonD1120 62]

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>Definition of SOCIALIST

>1: one who advocates or practices socialism

You have just defined yourself as a socialist. You participate in a socialist program.

Nope!

so·cial·ism   [soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2.procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3.(in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

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I just spoke to a SSA representative.

It is too late for me now, age 70. I was never salaried as a minister. I have always been an independent servant for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I'm not 100% sure what this means. If you were receiving money that you were paying taxes on, then all those tax benefits were available to you.

I supported my ministry as a professional parachutist. In 1994 I joined the corporate world as an assessment counselor. I pretty much stayed in the corporate counseling field until I retired in 2009.

well, if you did not have income to your ministry (i.e. you were self-supported) then it didn't matter anyway. You could not opt out of any social security taxes, because you had no taxable income from that employment.

I have no idea if this was an ordained ministry or not, that would also be a factor.

I was ordained, some churches call it licensed, through a local church but worked independently.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

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>It is much different being drug into a program than it is advocating for a program

Agreed. He is not a socialist advocate; merely a user of a socialist entitlement program. He could refuse the money but he prefers to use it, since he feels entitled to it. (Paid into the system and all that.)

And there's nothing wrong with that; lots of people do it. I just find it funny that he is so opposed to others doing what he does.

I think you twist this a bit

I dont like the system but it is here.
I have paid into it so I will use it

However
Mr Obama would expand all of these types of programs

THAT I am against....

as we are already in too deep

I think the concept of a difference is too deep for the liberals to grasp. That is why they have so much anger. IMO

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

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(Edited to add) Just read the article, religious services only. Maybe if I worked for a religious institution?

Yes, religious service only. I believe your ordination allows you to perform weddings in NC, though.

In FL you have to be ordained through a legally cognizable church to perform weddings. I performed several ceremonies, primarily for skydivers, until I realized they mostly wanted a novelty wedding and were not serious about commitment.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

And yet, you have not answered the original question. Why should we punish successful individuals because others aren't successful? They are paying 70% of the bill. How much more do you want from them?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Southern_Man 0]

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(Edited to add) Just read the article, religious services only. Maybe if I worked for a religious institution?

Yes, religious service only. I believe your ordination allows you to perform weddings in NC, though.

In FL you have to be ordained through a legally cognizable church to perform weddings. I performed several ceremonies, primarily for skydivers, until I realized they mostly wanted a novelty wedding and were not serious about commitment.

I'm not sure what a "legally cognizable church" means but the standard in NC was basically, "Well, we as a state can't tell a real church from a fake church, so if you have any church that says you are ordained, that's good enough for us"

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"