More on BHO & Benghazi

[Gravitymaster 0]

jakee

Quote

Any civilian on the street at the time of the attack would be a willing participant and a target.

I wish there was a way of figuring out why so many people around the world dislike the US.

After you figure that out, maybe you could work on figuring out why so many in the US hate Muslims. Perhaps start with murdering our Ambassador.

[rickjump1 0]

kelpdiver

***
"At 11:30 PM Woods, Doherty and five others leave Tripoli, arriving in Benghazi at 1:30 AM on Wednesday morning, where they hold off the attacking mob from the roof of the compound until they are killed by a mortar direct hit at 4:00 AM." Note: He also mentioned that things started happening around 10:00 PM. Lots of time for the White House to react and lots of time for "innocent bystanders" to leave.

Do you must think that the attackers were exercising their "right to peaceful assembly?

It's their country, outside the embassy walls. Not sure what sort of rights they have. I just know that we lack the proper standing to make such a determination of people in their own nation. Would the F16s first broadcast a warning before unloading munitions on foreign soil? (Do they even have speakers?) How about a flyby at 700 KTS? Depending on the temp and altitude , that could break some dishes. F16's have been around a long time so they just might have Radio Shack outdoor speakers.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[GQ_jumper 4]

kelpdiver

***
"At 11:30 PM Woods, Doherty and five others leave Tripoli, arriving in Benghazi at 1:30 AM on Wednesday morning, where they hold off the attacking mob from the roof of the compound until they are killed by a mortar direct hit at 4:00 AM." Note: He also mentioned that things started happening around 10:00 PM. Lots of time for the White House to react and lots of time for "innocent bystanders" to leave.

Do you must think that the attackers were exercising their "right to peaceful assembly?

It's their country, outside the embassy walls. Not sure what sort of rights they have. I just know that we lack the proper standing to make such a determination of people in their own nation. Would the F16s first broadcast a warning before unloading munitions on foreign soil? (Do they even have speakers?)

Anytime we would hit multiple targets in a single village the evidence collection and tactical questioning would obviously take quite a bit of time after the action had ceased. Typically despite our best efforts to get off-target prior tot he sun coming up we would run over to make sure we left with the best product possible. The best way to break up the assembling masses as it would start to get light out and crowds would start to mass on the opposite end of town waiting for a big enough force to pick a fight was to have our JTAC call in a low-level flyby from whatever was pulling top-cover for us.

Long-story short, we avoided having to kill a lot of people because as soon as our eyes in the sky would tell us of a gathering crowd nearby we would have our fixed-wing CAS come ripping overhead at rooftop level, and low and behold the crowds would disperse without ever firing a shot.

The threat of an aircraft armed to the teeth with lethal precision overhead goes a long way in taking the fight out of people on the ground. So to answer you question, yes, an F-16 can "broadcast" a warning. Its called simply making your presence known.

And lets also point out the fact that during the attack there were operators on the ground lasing targets in hopes that something in the sky had munitions. So it wouldn't have been F-16s randomly strafing people, the pilots would've switched to the radio frequency of the shooters on the ground and been "talked-on" to the appropriate targets to ensure their munitions were only being used on those who were involved in the fight. As soon as ECAS is called the pilots are given the radio freqs. of the forces on the ground so there is direct communication.

Failing to deploy F-16s was a vile failure of leadership. It would have saved American lives and sent a clear message that future attacks would not be tolerated. Every time we allow these attacks to happen without an overwhelming level of reactionary forces being deployed it emboldens those who wish to do us harm. We have the biggest stick in the room, we should wield it quickly, but use it carefully.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[turtlespeed 221]

kelpdiver

*** Any civilian on the street at the time of the attack would be a willing participant and a target.

Let's hope Americans' right to assembly never deteriorates that far.

I think you'll have a hard time convincing the Libyan, or any other government, that we have the right to target civilians so trivially.

Holy fuck. You still believe this was a demonstration?

Well, I guess the false reports about the video worked then didn't it?

(Face Palm).

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kelpdiver 2]

turtlespeed

****** Any civilian on the street at the time of the attack would be a willing participant and a target.

Let's hope Americans' right to assembly never deteriorates that far.

I think you'll have a hard time convincing the Libyan, or any other government, that we have the right to target civilians so trivially.

Holy fuck. You still believe this was a demonstration?

Well, I guess the false reports about the video worked then didn't it?

(Face Palm).

Holy Fuck indeed. you guys are still talking about shooting up the streets of a foreign city? This isn't Iraq where we get to shoot any brown people fi they get in the way, casualties of the state of 'war.'

do any of you have ANY idea what sort of shit storm this would create? We'd be expelled from dozens of countries within the week. Put it another way - if the country in question were one big enough to fight us back, would you still propose invading them unasked? In the 90s there was a very bad scene outside the embassy in Guandong, but unlike Libya, sending F16s into China would just get those pilots killed, and who knows what consequences thereafter.

[RonD1120 62]

I've been trying to follow you in these past few posts.

Am I correct in assuming that you believe that the four Americans killed in Benghazi were field expendable and not worth the effort to save them?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 2,998]

>Am I correct in assuming that you believe that the four Americans killed in Benghazi
>were field expendable and not worth the effort to save them?

That was Rickjump who claimed that "any civilian on the street at the time of the attack would be a willing participant and a target." As I understand it two of the people killed were civilian employees.

[RonD1120 62]

billvon

>Am I correct in assuming that you believe that the four Americans killed in Benghazi
>were field expendable and not worth the effort to save them?

That was Rickjump who claimed that "any civilian on the street at the time of the attack would be a willing participant and a target." As I understand it two of the people killed were civilian employees.

"Kill'em all. Let God sort'em out." It was a situation of war. But, that is all tangential argument.

All I want to know is who decided they were not worth saving.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kelpdiver 2]

RonD1120

I've been trying to follow you in these past few posts.

Am I correct in assuming that you believe that the four Americans killed in Benghazi were field expendable and not worth the effort to save them?

look up foreign sovereignty and if you're still confused....maybe someone here can help.

You're proposing actions that would make every American abroad a field expendable target.

[Rick 67]

All I want to know is who decided they were not worth saving.


that is the question that keeps getting ignored and the one IMO that we should be demanding the answer to

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[kelpdiver 2]

Rick

All I want to know is who decided they were not worth saving.

that is the question that keeps getting ignored and the one IMO that we should be demanding the answer to

This has a "please won't someone think of the children" feel to it.

[airdvr 210]

kelpdiver

***All I want to know is who decided they were not worth saving.

that is the question that keeps getting ignored and the one IMO that we should be demanding the answer to

This has a "please won't someone think of the children" feel to it.

Prolly wouldn't be saying that if it was your child.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[turtlespeed 221]

airdvr

******All I want to know is who decided they were not worth saving.

that is the question that keeps getting ignored and the one IMO that we should be demanding the answer to

This has a "please won't someone think of the children" feel to it.

Prolly wouldn't be saying that if it was your child.

What we learn from Kelpdiver --
1) The Obama administration was correct in the actions they took regarding the Ambassador in Bhengazi.

2) We should not protect ourselves, the American people, or our ambassadors during a terrorist attack on foreign soil, even when that soil is technically ours anyway.

3) The people that were attacking the embassy were protesters, and innocent bystanders.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kelpdiver 2]

airdvr

******All I want to know is who decided they were not worth saving.

that is the question that keeps getting ignored and the one IMO that we should be demanding the answer to

This has a "please won't someone think of the children" feel to it.

Prolly wouldn't be saying that if it was your child.

Nor would you if it was your kid that was killed in the 'surgical' F16 strikes on the streets outside the embassy.

The fantasy that there would not be collateral damage is being ignored. So is the fact that we don't get to inflict collateral damage on a nation we're not at war with. You guys insist on sidestepping around this reality because your argument falls apart. Thus you leap to inserting statements into my mouth and other nonsense.

[turtlespeed 221]

kelpdiver

*********All I want to know is who decided they were not worth saving.

that is the question that keeps getting ignored and the one IMO that we should be demanding the answer to

This has a "please won't someone think of the children" feel to it.

Prolly wouldn't be saying that if it was your child.

Nor would you if it was your kid that was killed in the 'surgical' F16 strikes on the streets outside the embassy.

The fantasy that there would not be collateral damage is being ignored. So is the fact that we don't get to inflict collateral damage on a nation we're not at war with. You guys insist on sidestepping around this reality because your argument falls apart. Thus you leap to inserting statements into my mouth and other nonsense.

So answer yes or no . . . In your opinion, do innocent people bring RPGs and Mortars to protests?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jakee 1,498]

Quote

So answer yes or no . . . In your opinion, do innocent people bring RPGs and Mortars to protests?

How many there had mortars and RPGs?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kelpdiver 2]

jakee

Quote

So answer yes or no . . . In your opinion, do innocent people bring RPGs and Mortars to protests?

How many there had mortars and RPGs?

and the followup question - what percentage of them need to have mortars and RPGs to make it acceptable to kill indiscriminately?

[billvon 2,998]

>what percentage of them need to have mortars and RPGs to make it acceptable to
>kill indiscriminately?

15%. But not AK-47's - those are only used for home defense.

[kallend 2,027]

turtlespeed

************All I want to know is who decided they were not worth saving.

that is the question that keeps getting ignored and the one IMO that we should be demanding the answer to

This has a "please won't someone think of the children" feel to it.

Prolly wouldn't be saying that if it was your child.

Nor would you if it was your kid that was killed in the 'surgical' F16 strikes on the streets outside the embassy.

The fantasy that there would not be collateral damage is being ignored. So is the fact that we don't get to inflict collateral damage on a nation we're not at war with. You guys insist on sidestepping around this reality because your argument falls apart. Thus you leap to inserting statements into my mouth and other nonsense.

So answer yes or no . . . In your opinion, do innocent people bring RPGs and Mortars to protests?

Do NRA members bring guns to Tea Party rallies?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rickjump1 0]

billvon

>Am I correct in assuming that you believe that the four Americans killed in Benghazi
>were field expendable and not worth the effort to save them?

That was Rickjump who claimed that "any civilian on the street at the time of the attack would be a willing participant and a target." As I understand it two of the people killed were civilian employees.

It was obvious that terrorists were attempting to kill Americans and destroy US property, and it happened. Do you think that there would be innocent civilians walking on the street and "among the attackers" at that time of the morning? That was not the time for uncle Omar to be walking around selling his rugs. Uncle Omar would be home asleep in his bed. Bring on the US Air Force.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[rushmc 23]

kelpdiver

*********All I want to know is who decided they were not worth saving.

that is the question that keeps getting ignored and the one IMO that we should be demanding the answer to

This has a "please won't someone think of the children" feel to it.

Prolly wouldn't be saying that if it was your child.

Nor would you if it was your kid that was killed in the 'surgical' F16 strikes on the streets outside the embassy.

The fantasy that there would not be collateral damage is being ignored. So is the fact that we don't get to inflict collateral damage on a nation we're not at war with. You guys insist on sidestepping around this reality because your argument falls apart. Thus you leap to inserting statements into my mouth and other nonsense.

Hmmm

I feel that if the country is not helping protect our soil (in that country) then they are complicit in the actions of those attacking it

Then, what happens, happens

The only other choice is to ask us to leave

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

kallend

***************All I want to know is who decided they were not worth saving.

that is the question that keeps getting ignored and the one IMO that we should be demanding the answer to

This has a "please won't someone think of the children" feel to it.

Prolly wouldn't be saying that if it was your child.

Nor would you if it was your kid that was killed in the 'surgical' F16 strikes on the streets outside the embassy.

The fantasy that there would not be collateral damage is being ignored. So is the fact that we don't get to inflict collateral damage on a nation we're not at war with. You guys insist on sidestepping around this reality because your argument falls apart. Thus you leap to inserting statements into my mouth and other nonsense.

So answer yes or no . . . In your opinion, do innocent people bring RPGs and Mortars to protests?

Do NRA members bring guns to Tea Party rallies?

How many used them would be a more appropriate query

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[RonD1120 62]

kallend

Do NRA members bring guns to Tea Party rallies?

Many have concealed carry permits but, you knew that.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

Amen to that.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rickjump1 0]

>Do NRA members bring guns to Tea Party rallies?

Yes, but only after every member is inspected to insure they have their basic load of frag grenades, CS grenades, smoke grenades, and no less than 15 high capacity magazines for their personal weapon. A resupply vehicle must be positioned to the rear with easy access for ammo bearers if the need arises.

Remember, the Geneva Code does not apply to left wing nuts who carry illegal squirt guns.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.