The Denver Post detailed the criminal investigation of Abound Solar, a defunct solar-panel manufacturer in Colorado that was run on taxpayer “investments,” for securities fraud, consumer fraud and financial misrepresentation

[brenthutch 444]

http://www.humanevents.com/2012/10/26/your-taxpayer-subsidized-green-energy-at-work/

Another one bites the dust!

[rushmc 23]

Quote

http://www.humanevents.com/2012/10/26/your-taxpayer-subsidized-green-energy-at-work/

Another one bites the dust!

With a wad of tax payer money

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,031]

Sorry to depress you (and all the other anti-job types) on a Friday:

================
Green Jobs Report: At Least 3.1 Million Americans Employed In Green Sector, Labor Department Says

WASHINGTON (AP) — At least 3.1 million Americans are employed in green jobs, a sector that now accounts for about 2.4 percent of the nation's total employment, the Labor Department said Thursday.

The report represents the first time the department's Bureau of Labor Statistics has come up with an official count of environmentally friendly jobs, an emerging part of the economy and a centerpiece of President Barack Obama's stimulus plan.
===============
Counting up to green
Assessing the green economy and its implications for growth and equity

By Ethan Pollack
October 10, 2012

What is a green job? We tend to think of a green job as one that benefits the environment, but illustrations tend to be limited to fossil fuels vs. renewable energy. . . .

The data itself are fascinating, providing a starting point for evaluating the green economy. Moreover, matching these data with existing BLS data on employment trends yields several intriguing findings:

- Greener industries grow faster than the overall economy. For every percentage-point increase in an industry’s green intensity (the share of employment in green jobs), annual employment growth was 0.034 percentage points higher. Projections for the next 10 years suggest continued jobs benefits from green intensity.

- States with greater green intensity have generally fared better in the current economic downturn.

- Green jobs are accessible to workers without a college degree. For every one percentage-point increase in green intensity in a given industry, there was a corresponding 0.28 percentage-point increase in the share of jobs in that industry held by workers without a four-year college degree.

- Manufacturing plays a strong role in the green economy. Although it represents only 10.8 percent of total private employment, manufacturing accounts for 20.4 percent of green jobs.

These findings suggest that investments in the green economy could accomplish multiple goals beyond simply creating a more sustainable economy. First, the strong economic performance of green industries suggests that green investments could play an important role in a broader short- and long-term job creation strategy. Second, investments in green jobs could promote economic mobility by opening up the labor market to more workers without a college degree. And finally, the investment opportunities for going green are vast throughout nearly all industries.
====================

[BikerBabe 0]

I really have to ask, and this is not an attack, i am genuinely curious.

Brenthutch, do you work in big oil or coal or something? I see thread after thread started by you gleefully, joyfully alleging/reporting the demise of solar companies, green jobs, any environmental effort whatsoever, etc. What's the story?

I mean, no offense, but i now have this picture in my head of you driving down the street in a hummer H3 on trash day knocking over recycle bins as you pass, stopping in the park to chainsaw all the trees, throwing rocks at any solar panel you see, dumping acid in the streams, and finishing your day ransacking the zoo and clubbing all the animals while laughing maniacally. I seriously want to be proved wrong here...

I am trying to understand your agenda, or for that matter, why anyone (not just you) would be so actively anti-conservation. I don't expect to ever change your mind, but I do want to understand your motivation.

I would think that for a conservative such as yourself, any industry that brings jobs and growth to the US would be considered positive, yet, somehow, in your eyes, this isn't. Please, educate me.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[RonD1120 62]

Quote

The truth is that the problem is widespread. The government’s picking winners and losers in the energy market has cost taxpayers billions of dollars, and the rate of failure, cronyism, and corruption at the companies receiving the subsidies is substantial. The fact that some companies are not under financial duress does not make the policy a success. It simply means that our taxpayer dollars subsidized companies that would’ve found the financial support in the private market.

So far, 34 companies that were offered federal support from taxpayers are faltering — either having gone bankrupt or laying off workers or heading for bankruptcy. This list includes only those companies that received federal money from the Obama Administration’s Department of Energy and other agencies. The amount of money indicated does not reflect how much was actually received or spent but how much was offered. The amount also does not include other state, local, and federal tax credits and subsidies, which push the amount of money these companies have received from taxpayers even higher.

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/10/18/president-obamas-taxpayer-backed-green-energy-failures/


And just wait until the "Sequestration" takes effect. Romney has his work cut out for him. I believe he can turn it around.

Praying for America.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[brenthutch 444]

Hi BikerBabe

My Background is Military, Banking. Currently Semi retired running a small drop zone.

I drive a Honda Accord coup, six cylinders and speeds, wife drives a Range Rover. I am an environmentalist. When I worked at the bank I initiated a "adapt a highway" program. I have participated in dam removal, stream renovation and habitat preservation. I recycle, and have a garden.

My agenda is to DO THINGS THAT WORK. Windmills, electric cars, compact florescent light bulbs, global warming agendas and the like are WASTES of taxpayer money and HURT the environment by diverting resources that could actually help the environment.

[BikerBabe 0]

Quote

Hi BikerBabe

My Background is Military, Banking. Currently Semi retired running a small drop zone.

I drive a Honda Accord coup, six cylinders and speeds, wife drives a Range Rover. I am an environmentalist. When I worked at the bank I initiated a "adapt a highway" program. I have participated in dam removal, stream renovation and habitat preservation. I recycle, and have a garden.

My agenda is to DO THINGS THAT WORK. Windmills, electric cars, compact florescent light bulbs, global warming agendas and the like are WASTES of taxpayer money and HURT the environment by diverting resources that could actually help the environment.

so...in your mind, what are the things that work? wind power doesn't work? solar doesn't work? of course they work. what is your definition of "work" and what do YOU suggest we do to reduce our dependence on nonrenewable energy sources?

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[brenthutch 444]

Do they work better those other alternatives? Clearly not. Would I like them to? Yes. But they don’t, and I live in this place called reality. BTW what is your fetish with renewables?

[skypuppy 1]

so...in your mind, what are the things that work? wind power doesn't work? solar doesn't work? of course they work. what is your definition of "work" and what do YOU suggest we do to reduce our dependence on nonrenewable energy sources?


they certainly don't work efficiently enuf to justify the government investments that have been made in them. To put it succinctly, if people want to pay a premium for 'green' energy, they are welcome to do so. They don't have the right to make people who don't want to pay a premium for 'green' energy do so under duress. Also they don't have the right to force wind turbine farms or solar farms on local communities without the community having any say in it, and without consideration of the zoning and land use in the surrounding locations. When technology has advanced to the point where it is feasible to replace existing technology, it will happen naturally.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[BikerBabe 0]

Quote

Do they work better those other alternatives? Clearly not. Would I like them to? Yes. But they don’t, and I live in this place called reality. BTW what is your fetish with renewables?

But you didn't answer my question. Billvon powers his entire house with solar, and then some. how does it not work? OK, fine, that's a small-scale example, and I can already see your "it's not practical" argument coming from a mile away. But it's a waste of money for us to research ways of making it practical?

Rather than wringing your hands and shouting at the rain about how we're wasting our money on X, Y, and Z, why not offer alternative A, B, and C? Because it isn't your job? Because you aren't qualified? Well, if you aren't qualified to offer solutions, then I would argue that you also aren't qualified to complain so bitterly about those who ARE trying.

See, I don't think it's a waste of money at all to spend resources teaching the child to not touch the hot oven...you, however, seem to be the type that will only learn after you've touched the oven and been burned.

Why not just be 100% honest and say that your bottom line/wallet is more important to you than the long term health and well being of our children, our children's children, and the world's population as a whole? While I may not agree with that position, at least i'd appreciate the honesty.

(That's my "fetish" with renewables, by the way. I may not be around in 300 years, but that doesn't mean i want the people who ARE around in 300 years to be forced to live in a world where they can't breathe or drink clean water, or have access to modern conveniences like, i dunno...PLASTIC...because we've used up all the fossil fuels for things that could have been powered otherwise)

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[brenthutch 444]

" When technology has advanced to the point where it is feasible to replace existing technology, it will happen naturally. "

We have a winner!

[blueblur 0]

I think his (and others') overall answer is not that we shouldn't be developing these techs because they work or don't work. Simply that the government should not be funding private companies to develop exotic tech when we have other fiscal issues to solve. Yes, widespread solar, wind, etc... are great goals, but for the government to hand out billions to private companies that are now bankrupt is irresponsible and wrong. If these companies were so ground-breaking, private investors would have picked up the tab already. They seem to have simply taken the money and run (it into the ground!).

In every man's life he will be allotted one good woman and one good dog. That's all you get, so appreciate them while the time you have with them lasts.

- RiggerLee

[richravizza 28]

It seems like the current admin. has vision without a plan and doomed to this failure.
the current tech. for "green" fossil fuels have been Shuned & dismissed, for less effective higher cost technology.
example: honda Nat. gas Civic, costs less than a high bred,get about the same mileage on a per Gal/cost. yet emits less emissions then the a HIGH BRED.
american want an alternitive that has a meaningful and lasting impact.

[kallend 2,067]

Quote

I think his (and others') overall answer is not that we shouldn't be developing these techs because they work or don't work. Simply that the government should not be funding private companies to develop exotic tech when we have other fiscal issues to solve. Yes, widespread solar, wind, etc... are great goals, but for the government to hand out billions to private companies that are now bankrupt is irresponsible and wrong. If these companies were so ground-breaking, private investors would have picked up the tab already. They seem to have simply taken the money and run (it into the ground!).

Govt. certainly pumped $billions into the nuclear industry. Govt. has been funding advanced battery research for at least 35 years. Defense related R&D is pretty much 100% govt. funded.

R&D doesn't always pan out.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[blueblur 0]

All of those examples came about from the military (with the possible slight exception of advanced batteries, but the .mil is using robots and such running on them). The military is not using solar energy...

This isn't about R&D not panning out, this is about private companies taking money and going under completely, with possible criminal fraud.

In every man's life he will be allotted one good woman and one good dog. That's all you get, so appreciate them while the time you have with them lasts.

- RiggerLee

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Quote

All of those examples came about from the military (with the possible slight exception of advanced batteries, but the .mil is using robots and such running on them). The military is not using solar energy...

This isn't about R&D not panning out, this is about private companies taking money and going under completely, with possible criminal fraud.

Really? The military is on the leading edge of a lot of technology...

Including solar. Considering the cost of a gallon of fuel delivered to the combat zones in Afghanistan (somewhere around $150.00 - $175.00 per gallon), anything that generates electricity without needing to use fuel to power a generator has a lot of appeal.
They are testing and using a wide variety of renewables, and solar is among them.

NPR Story

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[funjumper101 15]

Quote

" When technology has advanced to the point where it is feasible to replace existing technology, it will happen naturally. "

We have a winner!

Perhaps you might educate yourself on the history and development of Silicon Valley and the semiconductor industry.

Electrical engineers knew, for a long time, how to design systems that could not be built with the current technology of the times. Enter Shockley and the other brilliant engineers figured out how to make circuits on silicon wafers. The process was extremely expensive, and not at all commercially viable for the private sector. The US government via NASA and the DOD had the money to, in the thinking of modern "conservatives", waste on products that did not have any perceived commercial value. The "wasted" money financed advances in design and manufacturing that brought down the cost for these products. Clever engineers like Wozniak figured out how to repurpose the products into assemblies that evolved into the personal computer, for example.

Had the government followed what passes for "conservative" thinking these days, the government support of the semiconductor industry never would have happened in the USA. If that had happened, what would the world be like now?

NASA budgets have been sliced and diced drastically. The moon landing project that cost billions of tax payer dollars ended up creating industries that returned trillions of dollars in economic growth. Once again, if what passes for "conservative" thinking had been applied, we would not have had the results of the government investment that happened.

For skydivers, the history of the airplane industry follows much the same pattern.

Why would intelligent, well informed people be against the government support of the alternative energy industry? I believe that they aren't. It is the low information people who don't know much about industrial history and the involvement of government in the development of industry. They are told that any involvement of the government in private industry is socialism, and they believe it.

Romneys success rate at Bain was about 8% of their investments actually panned out. The US government's involvement in the alternative energy industry is running at about 22% or thereabouts. True patriots who cared about the long term success of the USA would be celebrating the successes, instead of dwelling on the failures.

Gloating about the failures is not helpful to the long term health of the country. Quite the opposite.

[brenthutch 444]

"Romneys success rate at Bain was about 8% of their investments actually panned out. The US government's involvement in the alternative energy industry is running at about 22%"

Looks like you get your news from the Daily Show, as this is a direct quote.

Also there a difference between private equity and public funding. And just because a firm is not bankrupt (yet) does not make it successful.

[skypuppy 1]

Quote

Quote

" When technology has advanced to the point where it is feasible to replace existing technology, it will happen naturally. "

We have a winner!

Perhaps you might educate yourself on the history and development of Silicon Valley and the semiconductor industry.

Electrical engineers knew, for a long time, how to design systems that could not be built with the current technology of the times. Enter Shockley and the other brilliant engineers figured out how to make circuits on silicon wafers. The process was extremely expensive, and not at all commercially viable for the private sector. The US government via NASA and the DOD had the money to, in the thinking of modern "conservatives", waste on products that did not have any perceived commercial value. The "wasted" money financed advances in design and manufacturing that brought down the cost for these products. Clever engineers like Wozniak figured out how to repurpose the products into assemblies that evolved into the personal computer, for example.

Had the government followed what passes for "conservative" thinking these days, the government support of the semiconductor industry never would have happened in the USA. If that had happened, what would the world be like now?

NASA budgets have been sliced and diced drastically. The moon landing project that cost billions of tax payer dollars ended up creating industries that returned trillions of dollars in economic growth. Once again, if what passes for "conservative" thinking had been applied, we would not have had the results of the government investment that happened.

For skydivers, the history of the airplane industry follows much the same pattern.

Why would intelligent, well informed people be against the government support of the alternative energy industry? I believe that they aren't. It is the low information people who don't know much about industrial history and the involvement of government in the development of industry. They are told that any involvement of the government in private industry is socialism, and they believe it.

Romneys success rate at Bain was about 8% of their investments actually panned out. The US government's involvement in the alternative energy industry is running at about 22% or thereabouts. True patriots who cared about the long term success of the USA would be celebrating the successes, instead of dwelling on the failures.

Gloating about the failures is not helpful to the long term health of the country. Quite the opposite.

If you want to finance research into perfecting 'green energy systems' that's fine. But it certainly doesn't make it feasible to erect or produce thousands of inefficient monstrosities and replace or destroy viable producers such as existing plants or sources when in ten years time the technology you used to put up the inefficient monstrosities renders them obsolete and unnecessary...

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[billvon 3,031]

>Also there a difference between private equity and public funding.

Agreed! And given that, we definitely want someone with a 97% success rate rather than someone with a 78% success rate running things.

=========
Out of the 14 investments that Romney made through private-sector investors, three are bankrupt — more than a 21 percent failure rate.

. . .

Well, someone forgot to tell the Department of Energy about the high failure rate in early-stage technology investments. Because they didn’t experience it.

“While not every investment will succeed,” [former Department of Energy loan director Jonathan] Silver testified, “the portfolio is in good shape. The funds represented by investments that have failed represent less than 3 percent of the total portfolio. This is a record the private sector would consider remarkable but is particularly impressive for a portfolio of technologically innovative projects being built at a commercial scale for the first time anywhere.”

. . . .

If Republicans in Congress are demanding perfection from government and aren’t willing to accept even a 3 percent failure rate, they have chosen a strategy of forfeiting the race. We aren’t even in the starting blocks. It’s cowardly politics and feckless policy.

I visited China last year to see the mind-blowing investments being made in clean energy. At one stop, a member of the Chinese delegation approached me and asked, “So, when do you think the U.S. will adopt national energy policy?” I rolled my eyes and shrugged my shoulders. “With the tea party and Republicans in Congress,” I sighed, “it won’t happen anytime soon.”

The official smiled with delight. “Take your time,” he said. “Just take your time.”

So, Republicans, go ahead and take your sweet time on investing in our future. Just know that, as we sleep, China is grateful for your inaction, moving into position to win the gold. And smiling all the way.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/78918_Page2.html#ixzz2AiPtwrm8


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/78918.html
=========

[brenthutch 444]

We all know that warp drives and flux capacitors are the transportation systems of the future. But I would like to make our investments in research universities to fully develop that technology while many on this forum want to start building factories to produce them before the technology is mature with billions of tax payer dollars.
Oh and BTW China has limited its renewable efforts to nuclear and hydro, dropping solar and wind. Of course they will continue to sell those products to the suckers who want to buy them.
http://www.elp.com/index/from-the-wires/wire_news_display/1621584677.html

[funjumper101 15]

Quote

We all know that warp drives and flux capacitors are the transportation systems of the future. But I would like to make our investments in research universities to fully develop that technology while many on this forum want to start building factories to produce them before the technology is mature with billions of tax payer dollars.
Oh and BTW China has limited its renewable efforts to nuclear and hydro, dropping solar and wind. Of course they will continue to sell those products to the suckers who want to buy them.
http://www.elp.com/index/from-the-wires/wire_news_display/1621584677.html

Watching a bit too much tv recently? Warp drives and flux capacitors? Really?? Hint - those are fictional systems, aka, not real.

The Romnesians are planning to SLASH funding for basic research, not expand it. Don't you read what little of the details of their plans that have been released?

The conclusion could be reached the the Chinese know that if the US Goverment partners with private industry, they won't to be able to compete against that powerful combination.

Nice pessemistic view you have there. You, and others like you, are working hard to make sure that the USA becomes a second rate world power. You must be very proud.

[brenthutch 444]

Hook presented, bit, and set.

Too easy, cupcake!

[brenthutch 444]

Quote

Quote

We all know that warp drives and flux capacitors are the transportation systems of the future. But I would like to make our investments in research universities to fully develop that technology while many on this forum want to start building factories to produce them before the technology is mature with billions of tax payer dollars.
Oh and BTW China has limited its renewable efforts to nuclear and hydro, dropping solar and wind. Of course they will continue to sell those products to the suckers who want to buy them.
http://www.elp.com/index/from-the-wires/wire_news_display/1621584677.html

Watching a bit too much tv recently? Warp drives and flux capacitors? Really?? Hint - those are fictional systems, aka, not real.

The Romnesians are planning to SLASH funding for basic research, not expand it. Don't you read what little of the details of their plans that have been released?

The conclusion could be reached the the Chinese know that if the US Goverment partners with private industry, they won't to be able to compete against that powerful combination.

Nice pessemistic view you have there. You, and others like you, are working hard to make sure that the USA becomes a second rate world power. You must be very proud.

I didn’t think that I had to spell it out, but obviously I do. The "warp drives and flux capacitors" comment was a metaphor for solar, wind, and electric cars, and the government spending wasted on their premature industrialization.

[funjumper101 15]

The same arguments occurred when Fairchild Semiconductor was marketing integrated circuits to the US government and the US Military.

It is a VERY good thing that the objections of the conservatives of the time did not become US Policy.

I have yet to hear of ANY positive changes to US society and the US economy that came about due to the implementation of conservative philosophy. The damage done is quite obvious, starting with the current fiscal crisis.