jcd11235 0 #126 November 20, 2012 Quote>The two things are not remotely analogous. I suspect you think that because you are a skydiver and are not running a company. No, I think that because I can competently apply logic and reason, two things sorely missing from your analogy.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #127 November 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteif your going to quote me do it in a way that reflects the context of what i was saying. either you did it on purpose, which makes you dishonest and then we can end this discussion. or you did not understand my point and i'll explain more cleary. you were perfectly content to charge Kallend with racism charges on multiple occasions based on a gigantic reach around his use of the word vermin. Look in the mirror. I dont think thats fair. jewish banking conspiracies are abound. it is a very common insult and one lobbed by racist all the time. The use of the word vermin is not uncommonly used by racist and anti semites. the famous german propoganda movie, "the enternal jew" featured prominently the rat and used the german translation of vermin repeatadly. this is a common unsult thrown out by neo nazi's and general racist. I see someone put the two together and make a connection very easily. i'm not a loon who spouts conspiracies. i think my postings here prove im a rather rational moderate thinker. i do not know the guy, only what i read here from his postings and that he is a leftist college instructor. i could very well be wrong but do not think i'm far reaching in feeling he chose his wording purposley."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #128 November 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteif your going to quote me do it in a way that reflects the context of what i was saying. either you did it on purpose, which makes you dishonest and then we can end this discussion. or you did not understand my point and i'll explain more cleary. you were perfectly content to charge Kallend with racism charges on multiple occasions based on a gigantic reach around his use of the word vermin. Look in the mirror. I dont think thats fair. jewish banking conspiracies are abound. it is a very common insult and one lobbed by racist all the time. The use of the word vermin is not uncommonly used by racist and anti semites. the famous german propoganda movie, "the enternal jew" featured prominently the rat and used the german translation of vermin repeatadly. this is a common unsult thrown out by neo nazi's and general racist. I see someone put the two together and make a connection very easily. i'm not a loon who spouts conspiracies. i think my postings here prove im a rather rational moderate thinker. i do not know the guy, only what i read here from his postings and that he is a leftist college instructor. i could very well be wrong but do not think i'm far reaching in feeling he chose his wording purposley. Still projecting, I see.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #129 November 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteif your going to quote me do it in a way that reflects the context of what i was saying. either you did it on purpose, which makes you dishonest and then we can end this discussion. or you did not understand my point and i'll explain more cleary. you were perfectly content to charge Kallend with racism charges on multiple occasions based on a gigantic reach around his use of the word vermin. Look in the mirror. I dont think thats fair. jewish banking conspiracies are abound. it is a very common insult and one lobbed by racist all the time. The use of the word vermin is not uncommonly used by racist and anti semites. the famous german propoganda movie, "the enternal jew" featured prominently the rat and used the german translation of vermin repeatadly. this is a common unsult thrown out by neo nazi's and general racist. I see someone put the two together and make a connection very easily. i'm not a loon who spouts conspiracies. i think my postings here prove im a rather rational moderate thinker. i do not know the guy, only what i read here from his postings and that he is a leftist college instructor. i could very well be wrong but do not think i'm far reaching in feeling he chose his wording purposley. Still projecting, I see. you think im anti semitic? yes that makes sense, the guy who is offended by your racist comments is the racist. not the lefty college instructor who made the anti semetic comment and doesnt even deny it. i think our readers should google anti semitism and US colleges. would open their eyes a little."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #130 November 20, 2012 QuoteQuote you were perfectly content to charge Kallend with racism charges on multiple occasions based on a gigantic reach around his use of the word vermin. Look in the mirror. I dont think thats fair. jewish banking conspiracies are abound. it is a very common insult and one lobbed by racist all the time. The use of the word vermin is not uncommonly used by racist and anti semites. the famous german propoganda movie, "the enternal jew" featured prominently the rat and used the german translation of vermin repeatadly. this is a common unsult thrown out by neo nazi's and general racist. I see someone put the two together and make a connection very easily. i'm not a loon who spouts conspiracies. i think my postings here prove im a rather rational moderate thinker. i do not know the guy, only what i read here from his postings and that he is a leftist college instructor. i could very well be wrong but do not think i'm far reaching in feeling he chose his wording purposley. you normally do present yourself as rational and well educated as a financial insider. However, you insist on a definition of vermin that goes beyond "A person considered loathsome or highly offensive" to presume that any use of it is the same one use by Hitler's Nazi Germany. Out here in California, vermin is vermin. I suspect the same of Chicago and England. NYC, with a very high Jewish population historically, may have some old wounds, but it appears that the dictionary writers have opted against including it, even the Oxford folks. In short, without corroborating evidence of antisemitic writings by Kallend, I don't see how you can make such a presumption, particularly when it should be fair to assume he knows that bankers aren't all Jews. Is he supposed to just say "bad bad people" and write at a 4th grade level to avoid this sort of problem? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,069 #131 November 20, 2012 Enough. Your one warning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #132 November 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteif your going to quote me do it in a way that reflects the context of what i was saying. either you did it on purpose, which makes you dishonest and then we can end this discussion. or you did not understand my point and i'll explain more cleary. you were perfectly content to charge Kallend with racism charges on multiple occasions based on a gigantic reach around his use of the word vermin. Look in the mirror. I dont think thats fair. jewish banking conspiracies are abound. it is a very common insult and one lobbed by racist all the time. The use of the word vermin is not uncommonly used by racist and anti semites. the famous german propoganda movie, "the enternal jew" featured prominently the rat and used the german translation of vermin repeatadly. this is a common unsult thrown out by neo nazi's and general racist. I see someone put the two together and make a connection very easily. i'm not a loon who spouts conspiracies. i think my postings here prove im a rather rational moderate thinker. i do not know the guy, only what i read here from his postings and that he is a leftist college instructor. i could very well be wrong but do not think i'm far reaching in feeling he chose his wording purposley. Still projecting, I see. you think im anti semitic? yes that makes sense, the guy who is offended by your racist comments is the racist. not the lefty college instructor who made the anti semetic comment and doesnt even deny it. i think our readers should google anti semitism and US colleges. would open their eyes a little. Your repeated projection of your preconceived ideas speaks more about you than about me.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #133 November 21, 2012 Quote WAIT! We weren't REALLLLLY serious about causing you to shut down! The Bankruptcy Judge's name is Drain??? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #134 November 30, 2012 stream.marketwatch.com/story/markets/SS-4-4/SS-4-16986/ So while reneging on the union contract, Hostess execs award themselves huge bonuses.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #135 November 30, 2012 Quotestream.marketwatch.com/story/markets/SS-4-4/SS-4-16986/ So while reneging on the union contract, Hostess execs award themselves huge bonuses. Common practice and it must be cleared by the judge, so they might not get it. Its done in business and even in acadamia and gov't, fyi. The head of Penn State who was forced down got a very large bonus even though he was essentially fired. I saw nothing nefarious with it. There is a bigger picture involved. I know Kallend doesnt care about why it happens but for the edification of more open minded readers i'll give some insight on why those bonuses get paid. when a private equity company buys a firm they need to hire management. they can only supply a couple of their own people. in order to get a quality team you must promise money, whether the company succeeds or fails. this is done because no one will take a job that might only last a year or two unless they are promised enough money to make it worth while. So the exec's come on board knowing if the company succeeds they will have a good job for years and years but if it fails, they will get enough cash to carry them to the next job. If you want to pay peanuts, you get monkeys. if you want quality people, you must make financial promises and keep them. that is why bonuses get paid even when the company fails. the world is alot more nuanced than, left good and right bad. or bankers are evil and unions are good."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #136 November 30, 2012 Quotestream.marketwatch.com/story/markets/SS-4-4/SS-4-16986/ So while reneging on the union contract, Hostess execs award themselves huge bonuses. It's a business. Much like union leaders who called for a strike are still employed. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 848 #137 November 30, 2012 Contracts. Generally, legal proceedings support them. Don't want to pay the exec's big bonuses? Don't put them in their contracts. Personally, I'm very much looking forward to my annual bonus. Mama needs a new Benzo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #138 November 30, 2012 Quote Contracts. Generally, legal proceedings support them. Don't want to pay the exec's big bonuses? Don't put them in their contracts. Personally, I'm very much looking forward to my annual bonus. Mama needs a new Benzo. Sure, they support the contracts for execs, but allow them to break the ones for workers..."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #139 November 30, 2012 Quote Quote Contracts. Generally, legal proceedings support them. Don't want to pay the exec's big bonuses? Don't put them in their contracts. Personally, I'm very much looking forward to my annual bonus. Mama needs a new Benzo. Sure, they support the contracts for execs, but allow them to break the ones for workers... i dont want to anger you more but usually they are not in contracts. this is done because a verbal contract can not be broken like a written one. yes, thats the opposite of the law but accurate to the law of business. lawyers and judges can go after a written contract. a person with a good reputation will not break a verbal contract. so the private equity guy's make promises that if the biz fails, they will pay them something. its not written because they want flexibility. i know that it seems odd to a lay person. for the record, the current owners did NOT promise the unions anything. the union deals were written long before they bought the company. this whole problem started because they wanted to not honor the old contracts. they wanted to create a new one for less money. its not that odd if you really think about it."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 848 #140 November 30, 2012 My understanding is the union contract was up for renewal. The union declined. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #141 November 30, 2012 Quote Contracts. Generally, legal proceedings support them. Don't want to pay the exec's big bonuses? Don't put them in their contracts. Personally, I'm very much looking forward to my annual bonus. Mama needs a new Benzo. Unless they're with unions, apparently. Then it's OK to renege on them.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #142 November 30, 2012 Quote Quote Contracts. Generally, legal proceedings support them. Don't want to pay the exec's big bonuses? Don't put them in their contracts. Personally, I'm very much looking forward to my annual bonus. Mama needs a new Benzo. Unless they're with unions, apparently. Then it's OK to renege on them. the contracts were written by the previous management and owners, who went out of business. the new owners have now gone out of business. no one is reneging on anything. one of the parties in the contract no longer exist. my dad died before he paid me on a football debt, he did not renege on our agreement. the agreement is void because he no longer exist."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #143 November 30, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Contracts. Generally, legal proceedings support them. Don't want to pay the exec's big bonuses? Don't put them in their contracts. Personally, I'm very much looking forward to my annual bonus. Mama needs a new Benzo. Unless they're with unions, apparently. Then it's OK to renege on them. the contracts were written by the previous management and owners, who went out of business. the new owners have now gone out of business. no one is reneging on anything. one of the parties in the contract no longer exist. my dad died before he paid me on a football debt, he did not renege on our agreement. the agreement is void because he no longer exist. Irrelevant - the corporation still existed regardless of who owned or managed it. Remember that corporations ARE people, the Supreme Court said so.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #144 November 30, 2012 irrelevant - the corporation still existed regardless of who owned or managed it. Remember that corporations ARE people, the Supreme Court said so. the facts are relevant to a mature argument. my post is based on the facts of the situation and the reality of how a private equity firm runs its investments. your posts are just alot of anger and finger pointing. you purposely ignore the realities because it does not fit your model of one party being a victim and the other victor."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #145 November 30, 2012 QuoteUnless they're with unions, apparently. Then it's OK to renege on them. Contracts get re-negotiated all the time in alls ectors. Both parties have the option to say they do not want to renegotiate. In this case, that's what the union said. Actions have consequences. Unfortunately, with the exisiting contract the company is not profitable and will go bankrupt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 848 #146 November 30, 2012 QuoteQuoteUnless they're with unions, apparently. Then it's OK to renege on them. Contracts get re-negotiated all the time in alls ectors. Both parties have the option to say they do not want to renegotiate. In this case, that's what the union said. Actions have consequences. Unfortunately, with the exisiting contract the company is not profitable and will go has gone bankrupt. Liquidation was reported as completed this morning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #147 November 30, 2012 QuoteLiquidation was reported as completed this morning. I'm pretty sure any product offered will take thousands of years to break down fully to liquid ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #148 November 30, 2012 Quote Unless they're with unions, apparently. Then it's OK to renege on them. They didn't reneg, per se. They went bankrupt. But - the President of the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union made over $210k last year. (Note - that's just the bakers union. Hostess had about 370 CBAs to manage and had an additional $30 million wage and benefits increase for 20120. That's ADDITIONAL.) All the unions, the contracts, etc., also explain why it cost $1.89 for a six pack of Donette Gems. The contract wasn't up for renewal, if I recall. It was simply a "we have to cut or we go bankrupt." The Teamsters said, "You're right. We'll accept a cut." The bakers union said, "We union officers will keep making our salaries. So what if 18k people lose their jobs? Hostess managers may get their bonuses, but they'll be unemployed, too." Note - the $1.75 million is the maximum bonus and is divided between 19 people for an average of about $90k each and is conditional upon performance of tasks by these managers. "But lawrocket, they are bonuses to the managers of the company that is failing. Why should they get anything?" Here's why: because they are employees. The CEO isn't eligible for a bonus. These managers are there to help liquidate and wind down the operations. Unless there is something out there for them to earn, they'll jump ship. Since they have knowledge of the assets, debts, capital and operations, they are best suited to speed the winding down and to do it at a lesser cost. Therefore, these bonuses are the carrot being dangled before them to come to work to get this finished. Unless they have some money to look to at the end, they'll just quit. Then people have to be hired to do it, which will take much longer and cost a lot more. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #149 November 30, 2012 QuoteRemember that corporations ARE people, the Supreme Court said so. Yep. And much like people, corporations can cease to exist. It can be bad news for lots of people when a corporation dies. I mean, think of all those people who no longer have income, health insurance, pensions contributions. Hostess is a mighty fine example of the human cost of destroying corporations. (Unions, of course, are themselves corporations. Looking after themselves). My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #150 November 30, 2012 So, what you're saying is . . . These new Twinkies will be zombie Twinkies.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
