I Really Hope the news is Wrong...

[kallend 2,026]

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Hi John,

Thanks for the informed first hand observations. I was hoping you'd weigh in with your experiences. It's a welcome change from some of the well.....ignorant opinions some others expressed

I was happy to see this though

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All the differences are erased by the end of the freshman year.

That's good to know. Hopefully we're taking the right steps to make sure these aren't an issue later in life to begin with, but like most parent's we're just doing the best we can
Blues,
Ian

My experience is also limited to STEM majors. I don't get many business, poli-sci or liberal arts types in my classes.

John

What is/are STEM majors?

I am not familiar with that acronym

Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics.

Basically the geeks that keep our society running.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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Hi John,

Thanks for the informed first hand observations. I was hoping you'd weigh in with your experiences. It's a welcome change from some of the well.....ignorant opinions some others expressed

I was happy to see this though

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All the differences are erased by the end of the freshman year.

That's good to know. Hopefully we're taking the right steps to make sure these aren't an issue later in life to begin with, but like most parent's we're just doing the best we can
Blues,
Ian

My experience is also limited to STEM majors. I don't get many business, poli-sci or liberal arts types in my classes.

John

What is/are STEM majors?

I am not familiar with that acronym

Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics.

Basically the geeks that keep our society running.

LOL

Work with some good ones everyday

Thanks

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[oldwomanc6 52]

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John

What is/are STEM majors?

I am not familiar with that acronym

Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics.

Basically the geeks that keep our society running.


I thought that plumbers and trashmen kept our society from falling apart.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[kallend 2,026]

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John

What is/are STEM majors?

I am not familiar with that acronym

Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics.

Basically the geeks that keep our society running.

I thought that plumbers and trashmen kept our society from falling apart.

In my area the plumbers turn up with hi-tech tools designed by engineers, and the trash is processed in hi-tech facilities designed by engineers. And you didn't even mention sewage treatment plants.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[havoc996 0]

Has anyone been looking at the timelines for this recently? I know police response times are one of the reasons I own a gun. I was very surprised to see this though, especially on CNN.

"At the police station, dispatchers began to take calls from inside the school. Authorities say the first emergency call about the shooting came in at "approximately" 9:30 a.m.

"Sandy Hook school. Caller is indicating she thinks someone is shooting in the building," a dispatcher told fire and medical personnel, according to 911 tapes.

Police and other first responders arrived on scene about 20 minutes after the first calls."


http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/12/us/sandy-hook-timeline/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

Trail mix? Oh, you mean M&M's with obstacles.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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My wife had an interesting comment. She works in prisons, which she says are gun free zones. Prisoners find ways to make them and smuggle them in. To prisons, people. Prisons are drug free zones. Cell phone free zones. Alcohol free zones. Knife free zones. And under close guard. Yet all these things are constantly found in prisons.

So, would you suggest that hese items should therefor just be available, since trying to keep them out is not 100% effective?

I am not going to suggest that I have the solutions. In my opinion the issue is more multidimensional than just guns.

It is the stigmatization of mental health issues, combined with mental health care that is hard to access. Mix this together with easy access to guns in a society which somewhat idolizes violence and you have a recipe for disaster.

Nothing will ever ensure this doesn't ever happen again. The question is how many changes are you willing to make to reduce the chance of this happening again.

[GeorgiaDon 362]

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Police and other first responders arrived on scene about 20 minutes after the first calls."

More specific timeline (from this source):

9:35:53 a.m.- Dispatch: “Sandy Hook School, Caller’s indicated she thinks someone is shooting in the building.”

9:38:10 a.m.: Dispatch: “The shooting appears to have stopped. The school is in lock down.”

9:40:30 a.m.: Dispatch: “Shooter’s apparently still shooting in office area. Dickerson Drive.”

943:45 a.m.: Dispatch: “We have one female in Room 1 who has gunshot wound to the foot.”

9:46:20 a.m.: Dispatch: “We’ve got an injured person in Room 9 with numerous gunshot wounds.”

9:53:25 a.m.: Dispatch: “Newtown’s reporting one suspect down. The building has now been cleared.”

So, interval from first notification by dispatch (9:35:53) to building cleared/suspect down (9:53:25) was 17 min 32 seconds. 17 1/2 minutes for first responders to get to the school, enter, search and clear every room, and confirm that the suspect was down. I think that's not too shabby.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Gravitymaster 0]

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John

What is/are STEM majors?

I am not familiar with that acronym

Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics.

Basically the geeks that keep our society running.

I thought that plumbers and trashmen kept our society from falling apart.

In my area the plumbers turn up with hi-tech tools designed by engineers, and the trash is processed in hi-tech facilities designed by engineers. And you didn't even mention sewage treatment plants.

Weren't nuclear bombs and modern weapons also designed by engineers? I wonder how many deaths engineers have been responsible for?

[diverborg 0]

http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother

Thought this article was too well written and moving not to share. Pretty depressing read and perhaps can an at least help with some level of understanding.

[havoc996 0]

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Police and other first responders arrived on scene about 20 minutes after the first calls."

More specific timeline (from this source):

9:35:53 a.m.- Dispatch: “Sandy Hook School, Caller’s indicated she thinks someone is shooting in the building.”

9:38:10 a.m.: Dispatch: “The shooting appears to have stopped. The school is in lock down.”

9:40:30 a.m.: Dispatch: “Shooter’s apparently still shooting in office area. Dickerson Drive.”

943:45 a.m.: Dispatch: “We have one female in Room 1 who has gunshot wound to the foot.”

9:46:20 a.m.: Dispatch: “We’ve got an injured person in Room 9 with numerous gunshot wounds.”

9:53:25 a.m.: Dispatch: “Newtown’s reporting one suspect down. The building has now been cleared.”

So, interval from first notification by dispatch (9:35:53) to building cleared/suspect down (9:53:25) was 17 min 32 seconds. 17 1/2 minutes for first responders to get to the school, enter, search and clear every room, and confirm that the suspect was down. I think that's not too shabby.

Don

Agreed. Seemed like 20 minutes was an awfully long response time to me. On a side note, have you seen anything that tells the time from first call to first officer on the scene? Also it seemed like there was a 5 or six minute block of time between the first call and the first dispatch. That also seems a bit off to me.

Trail mix? Oh, you mean M&M's with obstacles.

[rushmc 23]

A couple of things I find interesting that one has to look for, because the media is not reporting this

First, when did Lanza end his spree? When someone with a gun (police) showed up.

Related and just as unreported

When did the shooting in the Oregon mall shooting end?

When a CCW holder pulled his gun. It was at that time the shooter ran and then took his own life (btw way, this hero did not shoot because of what was behind the perp)

Draw your own conclusions

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

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In my area the plumbers turn up with hi-tech tools designed by engineers, and the trash is processed in hi-tech facilities designed by engineers. And you didn't even mention sewage treatment plants.

engineers aren't normally union - therefore, they don't really do any work

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,990]

>therefore, they don't really do any work

The correct phrasing is "they don't do any real work." Just design flashy things for Best Buy. (and of course drive trains.)

[rehmwa 2]

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>therefore, they don't really do any work

The correct phrasing is "they don't do any real work." Just design flashy things for Best Buy. (and of course drive trains.)

I apologize - I'll actually meant to write

engineers aren't normally union - therefore, they don't really do any work as efficiently as union workers don't really do any work

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[lummy 4]

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A couple of things I find interesting that one has to look for, because the media is not reporting this

First, when did Lanza end his spree? When someone with a gun (police) showed up.

Related and just as unreported

When did the shooting in the Oregon mall shooting end?

When a CCW holder pulled his gun. It was at that time the shooter ran and then took his own life (btw way, this hero did not shoot because of what was behind the perp)

Draw your own conclusions

Thanks for pointing out how to possibly end it. Now do you have any suggestions for preventing it in the first place?

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[rushmc 23]

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A couple of things I find interesting that one has to look for, because the media is not reporting this

First, when did Lanza end his spree? When someone with a gun (police) showed up.

Related and just as unreported

When did the shooting in the Oregon mall shooting end?

When a CCW holder pulled his gun. It was at that time the shooter ran and then took his own life (btw way, this hero did not shoot because of what was behind the perp)

Draw your own conclusions

Thanks for pointing out how to possibly end it. Now do you have any suggestions for preventing it in the first place?

Nothing will absolutley prevent it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Nothing will absolutley prevent it

Correct, but a bit of a cop out. There are measures that could reduce the frequency, the severity, the probability, the possibility of these types of events.

Do you think it is warrented to explore that, or do you view these incidents as a price to pay for a so called free society?

[rushmc 23]

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Nothing will absolutley prevent it

Correct, but a bit of a cop out. There are measures that could reduce the frequency, the severity, the probability, the possibility of these types of events.

Do you think it is warrented to explore that, or do you view these incidents as a price to pay for a so called free society?

Not a cop out
Just being real

What are the measures you see working ?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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What are the measures you see working ?

* Better access to (mental) health care.
* Ease regulations allowing guardians or family to force hospitalization
* Reduce stigma associated with mental health issues.
* Repeal 2nd Amendment and ban all guns
* Make gun ownership mandatory and force people to carry at all times.
* Force firearms to be in immediate possession or locked in such a way only the legal onwer can retrieve.
* make firearms less easily accesable
* Ban semi automatic weapons
* Ban magazines that hold more than 3 rounds (or even 2 rounds...3 was chosen completely at random)
* Return to muzzle loaded rifles
* Multiple armed guards at every educational facility, full access control and mandatory bullet proof windows and blast proof doors.

Those are all measures I think will help reduce the chance, severity, probability, and/or possibility of these incidents occuring.

[kelpdiver 2]

fine, now which measures do you actually propose as viable ones, with detail on implementation and financing support?

[lummy 4]

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Nothing will absolutley prevent it

Correct, but a bit of a cop out. There are measures that could reduce the frequency, the severity, the probability, the possibility of these types of events.

Do you think it is warrented to explore that, or do you view these incidents as a price to pay for a so called free society?

Not a cop out
Just being real

What are the measures you see working ?

I've been reading this for the last few days hoping to see something positive come out of this discussion. I am dismayed how many knee jerk reactions there are on both sides.
I personally do not believe that banning guns would have prevented this massacre just as much as I doubt allowing concealed carry would have prevented this from happening.

So again, what can we do to prevent this from happening 10%, 50%, 75%?

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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fine, now which measures do you actually propose as viable ones, with detail on implementation and financing support?

Right after you make any proposal.

Unless you just think these 20 kids are a small price to pay for American Society and nothing can be done.

[rushmc 23]

Unless you just think these 20 kids are a small price to pay for American Society and nothing can be done.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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this is just a bull shit statement dude

Not if you take emotion out of it.

From most I have seen only the argument that this can not be 100% prevented.

Very, very, very few here have come up with any type of suggestions. Those who do, either get stymied, or told why it won't work.

If you aren't willing to change anything, than this is indeed just the price to pay for American Society.

Don't you normally preach to keep emotion out of these arguments?

[rushmc 23]

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this is just a bull shit statement dude

Not if you take emotion out of it.

From most I have seen only the argument that this can not be 100% prevented.

Very, very, very few here have come up with any type of suggestions. Those who do, either get stymied, or told why it won't work.

If you aren't willing to change anything, than this is indeed just the price to pay for American Society.

Don't you normally preach to keep emotion out of these arguments?

Your post had no other intention than to bring emotion back into the discussion

You got a suggestion that will stop this 100% please share it

Others whom I think to be much smarter than you have failed

But then I can only guess how smart to think yourself to be

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln