I Really Hope This Story is Wrong

[vortexring 0]

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I think that when people who own guns have less need to own them, there will be fewer guns. I am constantly amazed by those who think the solution is inverted.

Until we begin to have serious discussions about what is wrong with our culture and what we are going to do to change it, I will keep my guns to protect me from criminals.

I'll tell you what's wrong with your culture: massive gun proliferation, and with that ease of availability, and too much macho influence from TV reflecting onto your society.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[vortexring 0]

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You mean oppressive cultures like France where Muslim women are told they cannot wear a burka even if they want to?

Sorry, can you explain yourself better?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[vortexring 0]

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Doesn't the lack of thinking skills by some in Speakers Corner just astound you?

Ya
But I have had my turns at it too

This is an emotional event

Some want to make is stop
They see guns as the issue
Remove the guns this will stop

Thats what happened here in the UK... It didn't work.

Skyrad, maybe I'm reading this out of context, if so I'll apologise, but... if you're on about the UK ban on gun possession, when was the last time an individual massacred an amount of innocent people with a firearm here? Would it have been Hungerford with Michael Ryan and an AK-47, and then Dunblane, *before* the weapon ban? With nothing on such a scale afterwards??

Despite the UK having a completely different attitude towards gun ownership than America...the ban did work.

Gun laws won't ever completely eradicate gun crime; but a huge reduction in their proliferation through banning them will certainly make a very significant difference.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[gregpso 1]

Cant you at least ban civilans from having miltary rifles.

The USA will never ban handguns etc but M16s etc should be off the menu.

Side note I was amazed that at Disneyland no weapon search at entry just a feeeble bag search. I could ahve been carrying 6 handguns strapped to my body

I tend to be a bit different. enjoyed my time in the sport or is it an industry these days ??

[Gravitymaster 0]

Your thinking is inverted. Ask yourself why people feel the need to own guns and you will begin, and I do mean begin, to understand the problem is in the social culture.

[kallend 2,027]

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You haven't actually read the entire thread, have you?

Perhaps you should. Then you would have found out that there have been 20 people slashed to death since 2010. Then you wouldn't look so ill-informed.

And if you were better informed you would know that over 1000x as many people have been shot to death in the same time period.

So you are claiming over 20,00 people in China have been killed in gun crimes since 201? I call BS. Prove it.

Comparing guns in the USA with knives in China. Don't act like an idiot, we know you're not one.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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You mean oppressive cultures like France where Muslim women are told they cannot wear a burka even if they want to?

Sorry, can you explain yourself better?

Sure, the other countries you refer to have governments that oppress individual rights and freedoms to make them more secure. What we in the US call trading freedom for security. One of the founding philosophies addresses this issue.

[vortexring 0]

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Your thinking is inverted. Ask yourself why people feel the need to own guns and you will begin, and I do mean begin, to understand the problem is in the social culture.

Christ.

What makes America so unique as to suffer such a frequency of disturbed individuals massacring innocents?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[kallend 2,027]

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I think that when people who own guns have less need to own them, there will be fewer guns. I am constantly amazed by those who think the solution is inverted.

How many people really NEED a gun in the house? I'm 67 and I've never needed one, nor do I need one now.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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You haven't actually read the entire thread, have you?

Perhaps you should. Then you would have found out that there have been 20 people slashed to death since 2010. Then you wouldn't look so ill-informed.

And if you were better informed you would know that over 1000x as many people have been shot to death in the same time period.

So you are claiming over 20,00 people in China have been killed in gun crimes since 201? I call BS. Prove it.

Comparing guns in the USA with knives in China. Don't act like an idiot, we know you're not one.

So you can't prove your claim? That's what I thought.

[kallend 2,027]

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Your thinking is inverted. Ask yourself why people feel the need to own guns and you will begin, and I do mean begin, to understand the problem is in the social culture.

Christ.

What makes America so unique as to suffer such a frequency of disturbed individuals massacring innocents?

No more disturbed people here than anywhere else. The difference is that here the loonies can get hold of semi automatic weapons incredibly easily, and people like gravitymaster, rushmc and lawrocket see no problem with that.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Your thinking is inverted. Ask yourself why people feel the need to own guns and you will begin, and I do mean begin, to understand the problem is in the social culture.

Christ.

What makes America so unique as to suffer such a frequency of disturbed individuals massacring innocents?

It's a very deep seated neurosis. Books have been written on the subject.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Your thinking is inverted. Ask yourself why people feel the need to own guns and you will begin, and I do mean begin, to understand the problem is in the social culture.

Christ.

What makes America so unique as to suffer such a frequency of disturbed individuals massacring innocents?

No more disturbed people here than anywhere else. The difference is that here the loonies can get hold of semi automatic weapons incredibly easily, and people like gravitymaster, rushmc and lawrocket see no problem with that.

Bullshit. Nobody wants to see a looney get a gun.
How do you propose making it more difficult without trampling on the rights of the 99% of responsible gun owners, again?

Address the issue of why people find the need to own guns.

[kallend 2,027]

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Your thinking is inverted. Ask yourself why people feel the need to own guns and you will begin, and I do mean begin, to understand the problem is in the social culture.

Christ.

What makes America so unique as to suffer such a frequency of disturbed individuals massacring innocents?

No more disturbed people here than anywhere else. The difference is that here the loonies can get hold of semi automatic weapons incredibly easily, and people like gravitymaster, rushmc and lawrocket see no problem with that.

Bullshit. Nobody wants to see a looney get a gun.
How do you propose making it more difficult without trampling on the rights of the 99% of responsible gun owners, again?

Address the issue of why people find the need to own guns.

BS yourself. You have knee-jerk opposition to any and every suggestion to improve things, and make no proposals yourself.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[vortexring 0]

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You mean oppressive cultures like France where Muslim women are told they cannot wear a burka even if they want to?

Sorry, can you explain yourself better?

Sure, the other countries you refer to have governments that oppress individual rights and freedoms to make them more secure. What we in the US call trading freedom for security. One of the founding philosophies addresses this issue.

That's a pathetic example using one country and one controversial law.

I've worked in both France and the USA; in my experience American people in their day to day lives are far more oppressed than the French. And you have a higher percentage of your population incarcerated than France, or any other nation on the planet for that matter.

There are less massacres conducted by individuals in France too, because French people don't have a gun culture like American gun culture.

It really is quite simple.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[vortexring 0]

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Your thinking is inverted. Ask yourself why people feel the need to own guns and you will begin, and I do mean begin, to understand the problem is in the social culture.

Christ.

What makes America so unique as to suffer such a frequency of disturbed individuals massacring innocents?

No more disturbed people here than anywhere else. The difference is that here the loonies can get hold of semi automatic weapons incredibly easily, and people like gravitymaster, rushmc and lawrocket see no problem with that.

Bullshit. Nobody wants to see a looney get a gun.
How do you propose making it more difficult without trampling on the rights of the 99% of responsible gun owners, again?

Ban guns. Your children and their children will thank you for your sacrifice; along with the fact their schools will be safer.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[kallend 2,027]

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You mean oppressive cultures like France where Muslim women are told they cannot wear a burka even if they want to?

Sorry, can you explain yourself better?

Sure, the other countries you refer to have governments that oppress individual rights and freedoms to make them more secure. What we in the US call trading freedom for security. One of the founding philosophies addresses this issue.

That's a pathetic example using one country and one controversial law.

I've worked in both France and the USA; in my experience American people in their day to day lives are far more oppressed than the French. And you have a higher percentage of your population incarcerated than France, or any other nation on the planet for that matter.

There are less massacres conducted by individuals in France too, because French people don't have a gun culture like American gun culture.

It really is quite simple.

It is, but GM's eyes are blinded by his love of guns.

Anyone in the USA who thinks they live in the world's free-est society needs to take a trip to the Netherlands or Scandinavia.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[vortexring 0]

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You mean oppressive cultures like France where Muslim women are told they cannot wear a burka even if they want to?

Sorry, can you explain yourself better?

Sure, the other countries you refer to have governments that oppress individual rights and freedoms to make them more secure. What we in the US call trading freedom for security. One of the founding philosophies addresses this issue.

That's a pathetic example using one country and one controversial law.

I've worked in both France and the USA; in my experience American people in their day to day lives are far more oppressed than the French. And you have a higher percentage of your population incarcerated than France, or any other nation on the planet for that matter.

There are less massacres conducted by individuals in France too, because French people don't have a gun culture like American gun culture.

It really is quite simple.

It is, but GM's eyes are blinded by his love of guns.

Anyone in the USA who thinks they live in the world's free-est society needs to take a trip to the Netherlands or Scandinavia.

Are them near Arkansas?
Sorry, I'm being facetious.

It's exactly this blindness you describe which has me scratching my head in honest bewilderment.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[rushmc 23]

The only ones blind are you and kallend

I am just thankful that the founding fathers were worried about those who think as you do and made it extremely difficult for you to push the type of agenda those like you would

Do as you will in your country

as for ours?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[vortexring 0]

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The only ones blind are you and kallend

I am just thankful that the founding fathers were worried about those who think as you do and made it extremely difficult for you to push the type of agenda those like you would

Do as you will in your country

as for ours?

With my agenda there'd be less massacres; but that's not as important as the right to carry a gun is it?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[rushmc 23]

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The only ones blind are you and kallend

I am just thankful that the founding fathers were worried about those who think as you do and made it extremely difficult for you to push the type of agenda those like you would

Do as you will in your country

as for ours?

With my agenda there'd be less massacres; but that's not as important as the right to carry a gun is it?

Ah yes

Now we see the arrogance and future seeing abilities of a gun o phobe

Gun bans are working well in Chicago, dont you think?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[vortexring 0]

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The only ones blind are you and kallend

I am just thankful that the founding fathers were worried about those who think as you do and made it extremely difficult for you to push the type of agenda those like you would

Do as you will in your country

as for ours?

With my agenda there'd be less massacres; but that's not as important as the right to carry a gun is it?

Ah yes

Now we see the arrogance and future seeing abilities of a gun o phobe

Gun bans are working well in Chicago, dont you think?

What exactly is a 'gun-o-phobe'?

As it happens, on my next trip to the US I intend to visit a range to blat off lots of 9 milly. My grouping these days at 25m is wank. :)

I don't believe Chicago is a good example to compare; it'd have to be national, and I'm also aware of how insanely difficult a national ban would be...but a massive reduction and shift in cultural attitudes towards guns is the only genuine solution I can envisage. It'll take generations.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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A change of culture is what's required, beginning with draconian laws banning personal gun possession.

There are hundreds of millions of firearms in the USA (the vast majority of which have never been used in a crime). How are you proposing they be banned? You can't be that obtuse to think the owners would voluntarily just surrender them to the government now can you? So what you are really calling for with your draconian Police State like measures is where members of the military or the police knock down the doors of every residence in the USA in an attempt to seize all the firearms? What makes you think members of the military or police would accept putting their lives on the front line in this seizure attempt and what makes you think members of the military or police actually believe they would be doing the right thing by starting a civil war in an attempt to disarm the country? These mass shootings are horrible, especially when it involves innocent children. But what you are calling for will result in the deaths of millions of people. Yikes ....

Your call for a culture change is to start a draconian Police State civil war while my call for culture change is to bring the meaning of "family" back into the nation. Parents need to raise their children to be respectful self sufficient members of society. My solution is not easy. In fact it is rather difficult because the family unit has been allowed to decay for decades now. But it is still better than a draconian Police State civil war. Oh and by the way, I want nothing to do with the society you want. I choose choice, I choose liberty. As long as I am not infringing on someone else's liberty, I choose the freedom to chart my own future free from government interference.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Skyrad 0]

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Doesn't the lack of thinking skills by some in Speakers Corner just astound you?

Ya
But I have had my turns at it too

This is an emotional event

Some want to make is stop
They see guns as the issue
Remove the guns this will stop

Thats what happened here in the UK... It didn't work.

Skyrad, maybe I'm reading this out of context, if so I'll apologise, but... if you're on about the UK ban on gun possession, when was the last time an individual massacred an amount of innocent people with a firearm here? Would it have been Hungerford with Michael Ryan and an AK-47, and then Dunblane, *before* the weapon ban? With nothing on such a scale afterwards??

Despite the UK having a completely different attitude towards gun ownership than America...the ban did work.

Gun laws won't ever completely eradicate gun crime; but a huge reduction in their proliferation through banning them will certainly make a very significant difference.

Other than Hungerford and Dunblane there wasn't any massacres involving guns in the UK (not including terrorist events) so to say that they stopped because of the ban is simply not correct. In the last couple of years we've had Derrick Bird and Raoul Moat not to mention the crimes involving illegal handguns which the ban has not stopped.

Its still legal to own rim fire semi automatic rifles which are lethal at the ranges typically discussed in these cases, still legal to own 5.56 straight pulls, section 1 shotguns etc. Yet we still haven't had a school shooting like Dunblane if guns were the problem we would have.
Like you said culture is the problem, until the USA sorts out its cultural and social issues these school attacks will keep happening.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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I think that when people who own guns have less need to own them, there will be fewer guns. I am constantly amazed by those who think the solution is inverted.

How many people really NEED a gun in the house? I'm 67 and I've never needed one, nor do I need one now.

Oh have you moved back to the UK? Maybe you've just been lucky.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca