kelpdiver 2 #76 December 17, 2012 Quote If there can never be any compromise and the right to have pretty much free access to guns will always have priority in someone's mind, then I tend to agree with Kallend. They have to then assume some of the culpability when guns find their way into situations like this. Your opinion. Mine is that people like you have to assume culpability for forcing those teachers to die like livestock. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #77 December 17, 2012 QuoteClearly Texas has the answer: www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57559506/shots-fired-patrons-panic-at-san-antonio-theater/ Obviously in this case they did, since the perp was shot by an armed citizen.If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #78 December 17, 2012 Quote Quote Quote All of that aside, the 'how could it make it worse?' argument is a morally terrible one. If people aren't standing up and saying 'we have to STOP these thing happening' after this one, then their priorities are way out of whack in my opinion. Now - Stopping it in the future isn't the same as saying 'ban everything!' I'm bright enough to realize that that ship has sailed already, but there has to be some sort of control in place. How many 6 year olds are worth your constitutional right to carry a gun? 'If it will save one children, it's worth it' is the most intellectually deficient argument out there. We already can see from the rest of the world that bans don't stop these statistically rare events from occurring. But it does enable those people to be very 'successful.' IMO, there is more to be gained by limited the potential carnage. There were 3 other points I raised in my post as well... Anyway, I was very precise in my wording. I called it a moralstance, not an intellectual one. The intellectual stance is to realise that the 'ban all guns' ship has long since sailed for the US and that alternative methods of stopping crazies going on shooting sprees needs to be sought - personally that's morally repugnant, but I can get behind it because it's the right solution. I've not seen any sort of compromise that limits guns from the pro-gun camp... Quite the opposite! Do people really need an arsenal at home? What if families were limited to 1 or 2 guns? Ignore the 'how' for now... If we want something enough we find a way to make it happen. If there can never be any compromise and the right to have pretty much free access to guns will always have priority in someone's mind, then I tend to agree with Kallend. They have to then assume some of the culpability when guns find their way into situations like this. limit guns? different tools for different purposes. small caliber handgun for target shooting, different caliber handgun for defence or carrying in the outdoors. Shotgun serves one purpose. Different rifles for different prey. Perhaps sentimental value to do with past service or with guns handed down from parents, etc. Why should someone have to CHOOSE which sport he will buy the gun for when there's no reason not to buy one for each discipline or task he wants -- sort of like having multiple skydiving rigs for different disciplines...If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #79 December 17, 2012 QuoteQuote If there can never be any compromise and the right to have pretty much free access to guns will always have priority in someone's mind, then I tend to agree with Kallend. They have to then assume some of the culpability when guns find their way into situations like this. Your opinion. Mine is that people like you have to assume culpability for forcing those teachers to die like livestock. Mine is that anyone who submits no ideas of their own and rejects any proposal from others is a big part of the problem.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #80 December 17, 2012 QuoteQuoteClearly Texas has the answer: www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57559506/shots-fired-patrons-panic-at-san-antonio-theater/ Obviously in this case they did, since the perp was shot by a sheriff's deputy. Fixed it for you. Personally I consider 2 people injured and shots fired in a theater to be less satisfactory than no one hurt and no shots fired.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #81 December 17, 2012 QuoteHi greg, A recent letter to the editor here in Oregon ( after the Oregon mall shootings & before the Connecticut school shootings ) from a 30-yr law enforcement officer. He said that whenever he goes into a restaurant he always sits so he can see the door and who is coming in. I had never thought of something like that but it would offer a better level of safety in one of these situations. JerryBaumchen Jason Borne taught me a great many skills in survival, as it turns out I'm not very good at them. And to my little NSA friends, Merry Christmas, hope your day is going well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #82 December 17, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote If there can never be any compromise and the right to have pretty much free access to guns will always have priority in someone's mind, then I tend to agree with Kallend. They have to then assume some of the culpability when guns find their way into situations like this. Your opinion. Mine is that people like you have to assume culpability for forcing those teachers to die like livestock. Mine is that anyone who submits no ideas of their own and rejects any proposal from others is a big part of the problem. Mine is that anyone who's thinking is so narrow that all they can offer is knee-jerk reactions and offeres no other solution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #83 December 17, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteClearly Texas has the answer: www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57559506/shots-fired-patrons-panic-at-san-antonio-theater/ Obviously in this case they did, since the perp was shot by a sheriff's deputy. who was off-duty, and therefore a citizen.... Fixed it for you. Personally I consider 2 people injured and shots fired in a theater to be less satisfactory than no one hurt and no shots fired.If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #84 December 17, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteClearly Texas has the answer: www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57559506/shots-fired-patrons-panic-at-san-antonio-theater/ Obviously in this case they did, since the perp was shot by a sheriff's deputy. who was off-duty, and therefore a citizen.... Are you implying he's not a citizen when on duty?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites yoink 321 #85 December 17, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Mine is that anyone who's thinking is so narrow that all they can offer is knee-jerk reactions and offeres no other solution. How can it be a knee jerk reaction in response to a decade of people shooting up schools? That's like saying the 3-ring circus on a rig was a 'knee jerk reaction' to the last fatality that had a capewell... I've already said that I'm willing to compromise my moral stance to try and take baby steps towards a solution - it's never going to be 'fixed' in one big go, but I'll ask again - what about you? Are you willing to compromise? At all? If you're going to sit there and say that under no circumstances should ANY form of controls be tightened in the wake of yet another massacre that would mean it's more difficult to get every type of gun in any number, then it's you not being part of the solution... not other people. Of course, if you don't think there's a problem that needs a solution, well, that's a different problem.... I had a cabbie ask me today 'Why do Americans have such a problem with gun control? They want to lead the world in controlling the production and quantities of nuclear weapons just in case some nutcase gets his hands on them, but why can't they do the same on a small scale for guns?' I thought it was a good simile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skyrad 0 #86 December 17, 2012 QuoteI love how your chart excludes Mexico, where owning a gun is illegal. I will bet even you would buy a gun if you lived in Mexico. It wouldn't be possible they've banned them remember. Once you ban things no one is able to obtain them its simply not possible apparently.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #87 December 17, 2012 QuoteQuoteI love how your chart excludes Mexico, where owning a gun is illegal. I will bet even you would buy a gun if you lived in Mexico. It wouldn't be possible they've banned them remember. Once you ban things no one is able to obtain them its simply not possible apparently. I suspect Professor Kallend would find a way to obtain a gun if he was forced to live in Mexico with "those people". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #88 December 17, 2012 Take a couple days off to think about The Rules.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #89 December 17, 2012 Quote Mine is that anyone who submits no ideas of their own and rejects any proposal from others is a big part of the problem. Do you're not a fan of the ACLU, either? Hey, when you submit an intelligent, thought out idea, then you can give yourself a pat on the back. Instead you have years of stuff at the level of an election campaigner - good on sound bites, shit on substance. The sort of thing we might expect if we let ASU run the Manhattan project. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,106 #90 December 17, 2012 QuoteQuote Mine is that anyone who submits no ideas of their own and rejects any proposal from others is a big part of the problem. Do you're not a fan of the ACLU, either? Hey, when you submit an intelligent, thought out idea, then you can give yourself a pat on the back. Instead you have years of stuff at the level of an election campaigner - good on sound bites, shit on substance. The sort of thing we might expect if we let ASU run the Manhattan project. Feel free to make your own, realistic proposal that has a chance of success.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 4 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
yoink 321 #85 December 17, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Mine is that anyone who's thinking is so narrow that all they can offer is knee-jerk reactions and offeres no other solution. How can it be a knee jerk reaction in response to a decade of people shooting up schools? That's like saying the 3-ring circus on a rig was a 'knee jerk reaction' to the last fatality that had a capewell... I've already said that I'm willing to compromise my moral stance to try and take baby steps towards a solution - it's never going to be 'fixed' in one big go, but I'll ask again - what about you? Are you willing to compromise? At all? If you're going to sit there and say that under no circumstances should ANY form of controls be tightened in the wake of yet another massacre that would mean it's more difficult to get every type of gun in any number, then it's you not being part of the solution... not other people. Of course, if you don't think there's a problem that needs a solution, well, that's a different problem.... I had a cabbie ask me today 'Why do Americans have such a problem with gun control? They want to lead the world in controlling the production and quantities of nuclear weapons just in case some nutcase gets his hands on them, but why can't they do the same on a small scale for guns?' I thought it was a good simile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skyrad 0 #86 December 17, 2012 QuoteI love how your chart excludes Mexico, where owning a gun is illegal. I will bet even you would buy a gun if you lived in Mexico. It wouldn't be possible they've banned them remember. Once you ban things no one is able to obtain them its simply not possible apparently.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #87 December 17, 2012 QuoteQuoteI love how your chart excludes Mexico, where owning a gun is illegal. I will bet even you would buy a gun if you lived in Mexico. It wouldn't be possible they've banned them remember. Once you ban things no one is able to obtain them its simply not possible apparently. I suspect Professor Kallend would find a way to obtain a gun if he was forced to live in Mexico with "those people". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #88 December 17, 2012 Take a couple days off to think about The Rules.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #89 December 17, 2012 Quote Mine is that anyone who submits no ideas of their own and rejects any proposal from others is a big part of the problem. Do you're not a fan of the ACLU, either? Hey, when you submit an intelligent, thought out idea, then you can give yourself a pat on the back. Instead you have years of stuff at the level of an election campaigner - good on sound bites, shit on substance. The sort of thing we might expect if we let ASU run the Manhattan project. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,106 #90 December 17, 2012 QuoteQuote Mine is that anyone who submits no ideas of their own and rejects any proposal from others is a big part of the problem. Do you're not a fan of the ACLU, either? Hey, when you submit an intelligent, thought out idea, then you can give yourself a pat on the back. Instead you have years of stuff at the level of an election campaigner - good on sound bites, shit on substance. The sort of thing we might expect if we let ASU run the Manhattan project. Feel free to make your own, realistic proposal that has a chance of success.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 4 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Skyrad 0 #86 December 17, 2012 QuoteI love how your chart excludes Mexico, where owning a gun is illegal. I will bet even you would buy a gun if you lived in Mexico. It wouldn't be possible they've banned them remember. Once you ban things no one is able to obtain them its simply not possible apparently.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #87 December 17, 2012 QuoteQuoteI love how your chart excludes Mexico, where owning a gun is illegal. I will bet even you would buy a gun if you lived in Mexico. It wouldn't be possible they've banned them remember. Once you ban things no one is able to obtain them its simply not possible apparently. I suspect Professor Kallend would find a way to obtain a gun if he was forced to live in Mexico with "those people". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #88 December 17, 2012 Take a couple days off to think about The Rules.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #89 December 17, 2012 Quote Mine is that anyone who submits no ideas of their own and rejects any proposal from others is a big part of the problem. Do you're not a fan of the ACLU, either? Hey, when you submit an intelligent, thought out idea, then you can give yourself a pat on the back. Instead you have years of stuff at the level of an election campaigner - good on sound bites, shit on substance. The sort of thing we might expect if we let ASU run the Manhattan project. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #90 December 17, 2012 QuoteQuote Mine is that anyone who submits no ideas of their own and rejects any proposal from others is a big part of the problem. Do you're not a fan of the ACLU, either? Hey, when you submit an intelligent, thought out idea, then you can give yourself a pat on the back. Instead you have years of stuff at the level of an election campaigner - good on sound bites, shit on substance. The sort of thing we might expect if we let ASU run the Manhattan project. Feel free to make your own, realistic proposal that has a chance of success.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
