What a classic Christian conservative upbringing can do to the mentally unstable.

[normiss 803]

Some smart people at Harvard disagree.

[billvon 2,998]

>What do you suggest?

I don't know. In general I think every sane, law abiding adult in the US should be allowed to buy guns, and I don't think that calling a class of weapons "assault weapons" does much.

There would be a lot of value in laws/procedures/social structures that prevented criminals or the mentally ill from buying or owning guns. That's very hard to do, though. Pre-testing would be a logistical nightmare and criminals already for the most part know how to get guns.

That's not to say it's impossible, though. Drunk driving was illegal in the 1970's - but still a problem. In the 1980's laws got tougher, with bigger penalties and more enforcement. And the problem decreased. So tougher laws can work even if it's a given that some people will break them. But what form should they take, and how can they be written to not unduly impact the law abiding folks from owning guns? That, I think, is where organizations like the NRA could help out.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>What do you suggest?

I don't know. In general I think every sane, law abiding adult in the US should be allowed to buy guns, and I don't think that calling a class of weapons "assault weapons" does much.

There would be a lot of value in laws/procedures/social structures that prevented criminals or the mentally ill from buying or owning guns. That's very hard to do, though. Pre-testing would be a logistical nightmare and criminals already for the most part know how to get guns.

That's not to say it's impossible, though. Drunk driving was illegal in the 1970's - but still a problem. In the 1980's laws got tougher, with bigger penalties and more enforcement. And the problem decreased. So tougher laws can work even if it's a given that some people will break them. But what form should they take, and how can they be written to not unduly impact the law abiding folks from owning guns? That, I think, is where organizations like the NRA could help out.

Your post is very much in line with the positon of the NRA

I dont know the answers either

I do strongly feel however that limiting the ability to buy guns will make no difference

Shootings like this are a symptom

The real problem lies within our society and the direction it ultimatley heads

In the short term however, I think we will have to arm someone in the schools

I heard last night, but have yet to confirm, that South Dakota is going to arm its teachers and will make it known

Thanks for the great reply Bill

Nothing you post here to disagree with

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Found it

http://www.argusleader.com/viewart/20121218/NEWS/312180033/Massacre-spurs-S-D-legislator-s-call-arm-school-staff

Quote

Massacre spurs S.D. legislator's call to arm school staff

Just a proposal at this point

A good one IMO

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 803]

Orange county FL has an armed officer at every school and have committed to doing that through the end of the year.
Beyond that, she's looking for funding to do this permanently.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Orange county FL has an armed officer at every school and have committed to doing that through the end of the year.
Beyond that, she's looking for funding to do this permanently.

A tax for this I woulld fully support

Even though my kids are out of school

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Can you tell me when the last killing spree was in which the shooter used a fully automatic assault weapon?

Sounds like bans and restrictions are pretty effective then.

[airdvr 210]

Quote

Quote

Orange county FL has an armed officer at every school and have committed to doing that through the end of the year.
Beyond that, she's looking for funding to do this permanently.

A tax for this I woulld fully support

Even though my kids are out of school

Lots of out of work veterans who could be employed this way.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Orange county FL has an armed officer at every school and have committed to doing that through the end of the year.
Beyond that, she's looking for funding to do this permanently.

A tax for this I woulld fully support

Even though my kids are out of school

Lots of out of work veterans who could be employed this way.

We can eliminated free kill zones (AKA gun free zones) but this in itself will not stop killing. It will only minimize it
No different than the TSA and air travel

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Quote

Can you tell me when the last killing spree was in which the shooter used a fully automatic assault weapon?

Sounds like bans and restrictions are pretty effective then.

Actually, it shows how little you know about guns. There are many fully automatic weapons out there. They are, for the most part, owned by law abiding citizens.

[Bignugget 0]

" In Reply To
In Reply To
That's like banning fast airplanes.
Because they also had absolutely nothing to do with the shooting.


"Connecticut police said the victims at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., were killed by a high-powered assault rifle."

"According to the medical examiner’s report, the main gun used by Adam Lanza, the suspected shooter, was a .223 caliber Bushmaster, a carbine similar to Colt’s AR-15 and M-4. The .223 caliber (5.56 mm) round is the same size as that used by troops in combat."

And that caliber is smaller than most used for hunting


So I will ask this again

what of the following rifles has more firepower

A sport Browning BAR chambered in a .308?

Or and AR15 type rifle chambered in a .556? "




does it really matter man?

I honestly don't understand.

Let me be the first to admit I would have no idea if they were in front of me which was which.

But, if I was to grab one and shoot a kindergartner, or a regular grown man, in the face....

.would it matter which one I selected??

[Bignugget 0]

My whole theory is.

learn from the ones who know what they are doing.

just like anything you want to learn. (SKYDIVING?)

Go look at countries who have drastically lower rates of gun violence, and see how they approach the situation, from gun control laws, to social aspects like over sensationalized news, violent games, lack of active parenting, home schooling?, religion?, etc. See how they are managing to accomplish this goal and adapt those methods to work for us.

Its not rocket science but people sure seem reluctant to do it, I wonder how many of you (im still a noob student) would be around happily enjoying the sky if you had just refused to listen to anyone who had experience in accomplishing what you were striving for.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Actually, it shows how little you know about guns. There are many fully automatic weapons out there. They are, for the most part, owned by law abiding citizens.

Exactly.

But, they are significantly harder and significantly more expensive to get your hands on.

They are also used significantly less in crimes and murders.

You think that is just coincedence?

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Quote

Actually, it shows how little you know about guns. There are many fully automatic weapons out there. They are, for the most part, owned by law abiding citizens.

Exactly.

But, they are significantly harder and significantly more expensive to get your hands on.

They are also used significantly less in crimes and murders.

You think that is just coincedence?

Great, let's make it difficult for crazy, irresponsible people with little money to get guns. Perhaps we could impose an income requirement, then people with little means wouldn't be able to afford them. I'm sure that would go over real well in the poorest neighborhoods where they need protection more than people in more well-to-do areas.

[billvon 2,998]

>Great, let's make it difficult for crazy, irresponsible people with little money to get guns.

Sounds good. Making it hard for crazy, irresponsible people of ANY income level to get guns is a step forward.

[normiss 803]

Gun safes.

[billvon 2,998]

>Gun safes.

One good way. Unfortunately a gun safe will not stop a crazy, irresponsible person from getting a gun at Wal-Mart.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

>Great, let's make it difficult for crazy, irresponsible people with little money to get guns.

Sounds good. Making it hard for crazy, irresponsible people of ANY income level to get guns is a step forward.

Talk about missing the point.....

[toolbox 0]

Very good point,spending a little more on treatment for the mental illness is probably cheaper than untreated cases going batshit crazy with guns,bombs,or both.

[toolbox 0]

Very well put.

[normiss 803]

Agreed.
Wally World removing them from their shelves might very well do that.
Then they can be sold only at gun stores as they should be.
To people with gun safes.

Yet we both know that's not been the case here. In fact the criminal was refused a gun purchase. As he clearly should have been.

So what do we do about gun thefts?

Gun safes.

[Gravitymaster 0]

I don't agree that people of low incomes should be priced out of owning a gun. Quite often, they are in greater need than a gun collector.

[normiss 803]

Like any other highly regulated and dangerous activity.
Life ain't cheap.
There are things all of us cannot afford or makes choices of spending on other items. Such is a choice.
Should someone steal your hunting weapon and kill some number of innocent people, we should hold the gun owner responsible for the irresponsible and dangerous lack of proper and safe storage.
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
Period.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Like any other highly regulated and dangerous activity.
Life ain't cheap.
There are things all of us cannot afford or makes choices of spending on other items. Such is a choice.
Should someone steal your hunting weapon and kill some number of innocent people, we should hold the gun owner responsible for the irresponsible and dangerous lack of proper and safe storage.
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
Period.

So poor people deserve to be preyed upon by criminals just because they are poor?

The government can provide them with Obamaphones to help them to search for a job or call 911 in an emergency but not the means to protect themselves from criminals?

[billvon 2,998]

>So poor people deserve to be preyed upon by criminals just because they are poor?

In the same way that poor people "deserve" to be "preyed on" by discount stores, yes.

But if you want to buy their guns for them, feel free.