Stopping School Shootings

[OHCHUTE 0]

Execuite all the murders on death row, and take the money you'll save there to protect the schools. There's 700 on death row in San Quenten alone. Think about it. Our tax dollars are spent keeping murders alive when they should be gone. They put body armor on Mohammed, the DC sniper to keep him safe, safe enough so the lawyer could make 20 million dollar defending him from the gallows. Yes MD spent 20 million dollars. Tell me the last time death row was invaded by a nut and killed a bunch of people. Right now the safest place in America is death row! That needs to change,

[FreeFallFiend 0]

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...hire ex-mil, retired mil, LEO, and armed SEO's.

Ever sat in on a school budget meeting?

Another good point which is also frustrating. Everyone is throwing a fit right now saying we need to do SOMETHING/ANYTHING to protect the kids from something like this ever happening again.

Since the 90's the state of KY has had 3 school shootings. On Monday it was decided 60% of their school safety budget will be cut.

Fiend

I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark. - Thomas Hobbes.

[matthewcline 0]

Yep, I didn't say it was free or easy, but it also can come from the PD budget, they are currently looking at double overtime here. but putting a bunch of trained, none-sworn, ASRT's in during school hours can be done, cheaper than the overtime costs.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[steve1 5]

Well, our school is on alert again. It's supposed to be the end of the world today. Somebody made a threat to shoot up our school. Extra police are out roaming the halls. We're supposed to keep our doors locked. The FBI is supposed to be here too. To tell you the truth, I don't think this is a credible threat, but who knows, this is a crazy place.

When I started teaching here, thirty years ago, this town had the highest murder rate in the U.S. Paul Harvey said he wouldn't even fly over this town in an airplane, because it was that dangerous. It is sometimes called "Stab City". Knives are the weapons of choice, but that may be changing to firearms.

If I don't make it you can split up my gear!

[Niki1 1]

(I posted this in another thread but this one seems more appropriate.)

This is not about gun control in generel but about school security.

Double the janatorial staff, Train them as security personel. Arm them.

The schools will be better maintained and someone will be available on the scene to deal with the occassional catastrophy.

It is an "occassional catastrophy." Even counting the minor incidents we don't hear about like a kid bringing a gun to school, a fight breaking out, given the number of schools and the number of really bad things that happen is statisically rare.

These ARE catastrophies and even one is too many but there is no way to eliminate all bad things from happening. We can use this as a way to better maintain part of our crumbling infrastructure.

Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis

Where are we going and why are we in this basket?

[DJL 235]

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Yep, I didn't say it was free or easy, but it also can come from the PD budget, they are currently looking at double overtime here. but putting a bunch of trained, none-sworn, ASRT's in during school hours can be done, cheaper than the overtime costs.

Matt

Any real solution is either going to be inexpensive and elegant or nothing. And we're not starting an arms race inside the 100,000 schools in America or have some kind of TSA equivalent.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[matthewcline 0]

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Yep, I didn't say it was free or easy, but it also can come from the PD budget, they are currently looking at double overtime here. but putting a bunch of trained, none-sworn, ASRT's in during school hours can be done, cheaper than the overtime costs.

Matt

Any real solution is either going to be inexpensive and elegant or nothing. And we're not starting an arms race inside the 100,000 schools in America or have some kind of TSA equivalent.

Do you know who first proposed this idea 16ish years ago?

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Andy9o8 2]

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The lawsuit for one madman with a gun is less than one armed teacher killing a student with an accidental discharge...

Well, let's not overreact here; it'll probably be just another teen pregnancy.

[DJL 235]

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Yep, I didn't say it was free or easy, but it also can come from the PD budget, they are currently looking at double overtime here. but putting a bunch of trained, none-sworn, ASRT's in during school hours can be done, cheaper than the overtime costs.

Matt

Any real solution is either going to be inexpensive and elegant or nothing. And we're not starting an arms race inside the 100,000 schools in America or have some kind of TSA equivalent.

Do you know who first proposed this idea 16ish years ago?

Matt

I'm going to go blind on this one because you probably think that since I'm looking for an unarmed solution that you're going to completely blow my mind and say it was John Kerry or Bill Clinton. Because it's more about politics isn't it. You're losing more sleep over the 2nd ammendment than the 6th commandment.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[matthewcline 0]

It is supposedly Clinton's idea, so you're correct.
And the 6th isn't applied very well at all, IMO, Criminals get off way too easy. That should be part of the solution, punishment for the crime found guilty of.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[GeorgiaDon 379]

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And the 6th isn't applied very well at all, IMO, Criminals get off way too easy. That should be part of the solution, punishment for the crime found guilty of.

Perhaps. But I find it interesting that the US has much harsher penalties than most other Western democracies, but the crime rate is not lower than in those countries. I guess if you actually put someone behind bars for 20 years for stealing a car,then they won't be stealing any cars for the next 20 years, but what is the expense to society?

The problem with deterrence is that most criminals seem to think they are smarter than the rest of us and won't get caught. Really, it's only people who plan ahead and weigh risk vs reward who are likely to look at harsh penalties and decide it isn't worth the risk. It seems to me most criminals (the Bernie Madoff types excepted) aren't geniuses at planning for the long term.

One thing that might make a big difference in the long run is to break up public housing projects; for those who truly need help, they should be integrated into "normal" neighborhoods. When kids (especially male children) grow up in an environment where no-body they see around them has a job, and all the male "role models" are in jail or on probation, and the ones who have any money are dealing drugs or pimping, it's hardly surprising that they grow up to regard that as "normal". When the girls grow up surrounded by single mother families, where me are not expected to take care of the children they produce, that too will be whatthey expect from life. Put kids into an environment where all the neighbors are self-supporting, where almost all the kids they know have two parents, where almost no-one goes to jail, and where "success" is defined by growing up and taking care of yourself through honest work, and they will almost certainly turn out better than they would growing up in the projects.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[DJL 235]

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It is supposedly Clinton's idea, so you're correct.
And the 6th isn't applied very well at all, IMO, Criminals get off way too easy. That should be part of the solution, punishment for the crime found guilty of.

Matt

The solution is...........Cylons.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[matthewcline 0]

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It is supposedly Clinton's idea, so you're correct.
And the 6th isn't applied very well at all, IMO, Criminals get off way too easy. That should be part of the solution, punishment for the crime found guilty of.

Matt

The solution is...........Cylons.

You have my attention!

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[JohnDeere 0]

The solution is easy. Allow all teachers too carry that can legally carry. How many colleges have students caring? How many incidents have come up in those colleges? Enough said debate over....Even the ignorant professor cant argue against that.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[rehmwa 2]

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....Even the ignorant professor cant argue against that.

give him a second - You'll get either an argument or an insult. or both


(the 'go ahead and carry' is still about mitigation and deterrent. That's one piece (several pieces) of the puzzle - and I, IMHO, think it's a great option to allow districts to choose from and it certainly shouldn't be restricted as an option as individual districts each choose how they want to respond.

Now, how about a prevention that's more than just deterrent? That would close the entire picture. It's what we're missing so far and only extreme measures are offered.....)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,106]

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....Even the ignorant professor cant argue against that.

give him a second - You'll get either an argument or an insult. or both


(the 'go ahead and carry' is still about mitigation and deterrent. That's one piece (several pieces) of the puzzle - and I, IMHO, think it's a great option to allow districts to choose from and it certainly shouldn't be restricted as an option as individual districts each choose how they want to respond.

Now, how about a prevention that's more than just deterrent? That would close the entire picture. It's what we're missing so far and only extreme measures are offered.....)

No argument there, except the prevention measures offered aren't extreme. Requiring a NICS check for ALL transfers isn't extreme, it's just closing an obvious loophole.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Allow all teachers too carry

because you can never have enough carry

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How many colleges have students caring?

I think most college students care quite a bit.

[DJL 235]

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The solution is easy. Allow all teachers too carry that can legally carry. How many colleges have students caring? How many incidents have come up in those colleges? Enough said debate over....Even the ignorant professor cant argue against that.

So you trust all these teachers to keep their firearms in a spot that is simultaneously accessible AND safe from a school full of children? We're having this conversation in the first place because one woman didn't keep her guns safe from her one deranged son. How is this making the school safer?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[matthewcline 0]

Do we know how she kept her weapons yet? do we know if maybe he killed her, then got the guns, then went on his rampage?

Heck the ME says stuff contradictory to what the news footage shows, and what the officers on the scene say. We are still hearing contradictions.

But if this guy had been in a treatment facility, which apparently he needed, we wouldn't be talking about this.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[kallend 2,106]

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The solution is easy. Allow all teachers too carry that can legally carry. How many colleges have students caring? How many incidents have come up in those colleges? Enough said debate over....Even the ignorant professor cant argue against that.

So you trust all these teachers to keep their firearms in a spot that is simultaneously accessible AND safe from a school full of children? We're having this conversation in the first place because one woman didn't keep her guns safe from her one deranged son. How is this making the school safer?

Asking for consistent logic from a gun nut is asking too much.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[texascrw 1]

Yes, it's called in a holster, on your hip, under your jacket. Not in the desk drawer, a purse or a locker. If you have a situation where it is needed, you don't have time to wander off to get it.

[matthewcline 0]

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The solution is easy. Allow all teachers too carry that can legally carry. How many colleges have students caring? How many incidents have come up in those colleges? Enough said debate over....Even the ignorant professor cant argue against that.

So you trust all these teachers to keep their firearms in a spot that is simultaneously accessible AND safe from a school full of children? We're having this conversation in the first place because one woman didn't keep her guns safe from her one deranged son. How is this making the school safer?

Asking for consistent logic from a gun nut is asking too much.

Let's stay on the adult level of conversation here.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[quade 4]

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do we know if maybe he killed her, then got the guns, then went on his rampage?

Right. I'm sure he used slow poison and only then, once she was dead, did he then break into his mother's totally safe gun safe designed to separate responsible gun ownership from irresponsible individual and go on a rampage.

Somehow, I don't think that's how it went down.

I think it's far more likely mom was an irresponsible gun owner. She KNEW her child wasn't normal yet kept unsecured guns in the house.

I guess we'll see when it all shakes out, but something tells me mom didn't have a secured gun vault.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[matthewcline 0]

I would rather know, that suppose. So far, it appears, every one who blames her is making an uneducated guess.

The ME could come out and say she was smothered with a pillow for all we know, then shot, then he went on his rampage.

This is of course just a "what if". Th e"what if" does nothing for dealing with the thing that started this tragedy, his mental health not being properly responded to, by either his mom or the system.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[quade 4]

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This is of course just a "what if". Th e"what if" does nothing for dealing with the thing that started this tragedy, his mental health not being properly responded to, by either his mom or the system.

Do you think it was responsible of the mother to keep guns in the home knowing her child had mental issues?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver