SStewart 13 #26 December 24, 2012 "considered unprecedented in a traditionaly safe Japan" Thanks for the quote. Gun violence is common in my country, knives not so much. Should I copy and paste the knife murders from the Swiss? I am sure there must be at least a few if I look for them. Maybe baseball bats or car wrecks to go along with the distraction? Hey, a caveman will hit you with a rock, should we outlaw rocks too? Ya, you win.Onward and Upward! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #27 December 24, 2012 When a crazy person decides to go on a killing spree, they will use whatever weapon is at hand. If it isn't a gun, it will be a knife or a sword or an automobile or a IED. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #28 December 24, 2012 Don't bother. The concept of "more efficient tool = higher casualty count" is lost, or ignored, or shouted-down, or spin-doctored, or the speaker is personally vilified. There can be no true conversation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #29 December 24, 2012 Certainly no discussions with those who need to always be right and make lame attempts to tear down others who disagree with them. Please return to ignore mode. I liked you better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #30 December 24, 2012 So you had to go back over 11 YEARS to find that. How many in the last MONTH in the USA? You made his point for him/... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #31 December 24, 2012 Quote So you had to go back over 11 YEARS to find that. How many in the last MONTH in the USA? You made his point for him/ You always crack me up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akokisa 0 #32 December 24, 2012 QuoteWhy is there no gun violence in Japan? They have virtually no gun crime at all. No mass murders, no school shootings, no gun crime to speak of really. Nobody in Japan has a gun. Culture? maybe, the people in Japan have honor. Yep, it's the culture difference. Japan also has a much higher suicide rate than America, despite not having any guns to do it with. American suicides with guns outnumber murders with guns. So guns are often blamed for gun suicides, along with a belief that if we just took away the guns, that these folks wouldn't kill themselves. But this international disparity just shows that even if you took away the guns from Americans, they could still find ways to commit suicide. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #33 December 24, 2012 QuoteQuoteWhy is there no gun violence in Japan? They have virtually no gun crime at all. No mass murders, no school shootings, no gun crime to speak of really. Nobody in Japan has a gun. Culture? maybe, the people in Japan have honor. Yep, it's the culture difference. Japan also has a much higher suicide rate than America, despite not having any guns to do it with. American suicides with guns outnumber murders with guns. So guns are often blamed for gun suicides, along with a belief that if we just took away the guns, that these folks wouldn't kill themselves. But this international disparity just shows that even if you took away the guns from Americans, they could still find ways to commit suicide. Cheap strawman. The post you're responding to said nothing about suicide. You're fabricating an easily-rebutted argument ("along with a belief that if we just took away the guns, that these folks wouldn't kill themselves"), attributing it to vague "others" you wish to vilify, and then (surprise!) rebutting the argument which you yourself created. Please stop talking to us like we're idiots. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #34 December 24, 2012 Don't bother. The concept or the speaker is personally vilified. There can be no true conversation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akokisa 0 #35 December 24, 2012 QuoteCheap strawman. The post you're responding to said nothing about suicide. You're fabricating an easily-rebutted argument ("along with a belief that if we just took away the guns, that these folks wouldn't kill themselves"), attributing it to vague "others" you wish to vilify, and then (surprise!) rebutting the argument which you yourself created. Please stop talking to us like we're idiots. It wasn't about suicide, it was an illustration of how different cultures produce different results. And that is exactly on-point to the subject of this thread, with school shootings, in comparison to the Swiss. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #36 December 24, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate That's all that needs to be said! QuoteThey don't have guns in schools and have more assault weapons than you can shake a stick at (Proper ones too) so why don't the Swiss have these mass school shootings? Me thinks culture. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #37 December 24, 2012 QuoteQuoteCheap strawman. The post you're responding to said nothing about suicide. You're fabricating an easily-rebutted argument ("along with a belief that if we just took away the guns, that these folks wouldn't kill themselves"), attributing it to vague "others" you wish to vilify, and then (surprise!) rebutting the argument which you yourself created. Please stop talking to us like we're idiots. It wasn't about suicide, it was an illustration of how different cultures produce different results. And that is exactly on-point to the subject of this thread, with school shootings, in comparison to the Swiss. The Swiss have lots of guns, but they also have mandatory training in order to keep the guns. They also have a limited ration of ammunition, regularly inspected to see that it is not diverted to non militia use. A crazy person would NOT be issued a gun in Switzerland. The gun lobby likes to use Switzerland as a model for easy access to guns in the USA, but on close examination it is a flawed analogy.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firemedic 7 #38 December 25, 2012 This article is a few years old but it does give validity to the argument that cultural differences are a reason Switzerland doesn't have the same gun violence problems the US has. http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/articles/guns-crime-swiss.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #39 December 25, 2012 No, it doesn't because it completely ignores the very serous regulations that Switzerland imposes, including rationing ammunition and periodic inspections. Typical gun lobby misinformation.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #40 December 25, 2012 I am not a superstitionguy but i can't come up with an actual reason why some one would kill kids, and as you mentioned there are other countries that have more guns per cap. So i guess the only reason i can come up with is Karma. We kill so many children for no reason and no one gives a fuck no news tories no candle light vigils as long as there not made in america we call them collateral damage So maybe thats why! The Swiss don't have the hypocritical view that most Americans have. You lead by example and so our youths follow Karmas a bitch and we have an extremely selfish society this time of the year is prime example. No one thinks about there actions or even loses sleep over what we do and they support. There should be no surprise that we make adults that don't care about any thing other then what they want or care about the consequences of there actions. Shitty adults make shitty kids.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akokisa 0 #41 December 25, 2012 QuoteNo, it doesn't because it completely ignores the very serous regulations that Switzerland imposes, including rationing ammunition and periodic inspections. They only ration the government issued ammo which is to be preserved for military use in a militia call-up for national defense. That's supposed to remain in readiness for emergencies. However, they are free to purchase and shoot all the personal ammo they want. Even using their government-issued firearms. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #42 December 25, 2012 Quote Quote Quote They don't have guns in schools and have more assault weapons than you can shake a stick at (Proper ones too) so why don't the Swiss have these mass school shootings? Me thinks culture. Because the Swiss have common sense. 'Mericans think, "Only MY sense makes sense." Nope, it is cause the swiss get as much boobies as they like. I swear violence is correlated to how prudish a society is. Good point.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #43 December 25, 2012 QuoteSo guns are often blamed for gun suicides, along with a belief that if we just took away the guns, that these folks wouldn't kill themselves. But this international disparity just shows that even if you took away the guns from Americans, they could still find ways to commit suicide. True, true...in spite of Andy's vilifications and misdirections. I say keep the guns for the suicidal...it gives the news media better dirty laundry and prods the gun-o-phobes to more self-exposing idiocy. Yes, yes, the "vilification" was pointedly intentional....it's a game that can be played by anyone, any time.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #44 December 25, 2012 Quote The gun lobby likes to use Switzerland as a model for easy access to guns in the USA, but on close examination it is a flawed analogy. The flaw is the idea that the only way for a crazy person to get the weapons is through legal channels.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #45 December 25, 2012 When you've a higher rate than South Africa you really are in the shit.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danornan 79 #46 December 25, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote. . The Swiss have lots of guns, but they also have mandatory training in order to keep the guns. They also have a limited ration of ammunition, regularly inspected to see that it is not diverted to non militia use. A crazy person would NOT be issued a gun in Switzerland. It sounds like the Swiss are on to something that we should consider emulating. I wonder how they define "crazy?"Dano Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #47 December 25, 2012 Seriously, it is the way we were raised. General Swiss way would be : work hard, don't get noticed, don't disturb your neighbour. In other words, if you want peace, give tranquilityscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #48 December 25, 2012 QuoteSeriously, it is the way we were raised. General Swiss way would be : work hard, don't get noticed, don't disturb your neighbour. In other words, if you want peace, give tranquility see, I like this. Courtesy and humility absolutely leads to more responsible gun owners and users. I think if people were more respectful in general, you'd get the best results (even with lots, or zero, gun laws). Seems to be lacking in a LOT of countries, and certainly in SC. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #49 December 25, 2012 QuoteQuoteSeriously, it is the way we were raised. General Swiss way would be : work hard, don't get noticed, don't disturb your neighbour. In other words, if you want peace, give tranquility see, I like this. Courtesy and humility absolutely leads to more responsible gun owners and users. I think if people were more respectful in general, you'd get the best results (even with lots, or zero, gun laws). Seems to be lacking in a LOT of countries, and certainly in SC. Not sure that crazy people would necessarily be influenced. What do the Swiss do about drugs? A huge % of the non domestic firearms murders in the USA are drug turf wars by gangbangers.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #50 December 25, 2012 Drugs are not legal, been trying to decriminalise canabis, which is more or less tolerated, relatively open minded about it despite the fact that is illegal. We do try to help druggies to do their thing in the best conditions, because we don't like to see heroin addicts jabbing their veins in the streetsscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
