We have to do something!

[brenthutch 444]

This is a refrain we frequently hear from folks, frequently those on the left. It seems to be a standalone proclamation of self-evident truth, without regard to efficacy. In fact, it often seems that the nobility of the proposed solution is inversely proportional to its results. Financial crisis, violent crime, climate change, childhood obesity? We have to do something! Jail bankers, ban guns, carbon tax, no Big Gulps. If we have to do something, why can't we do something that works?

[skydiver30960 0]

Looking at your question from a political point of view rather than an individual one:

My take: the two party system is completely broken. Both parties are entrenched and refuse to compromise. Hell, just look at just about any thread here and you can see it in action: the forfeiture of rational debate in favor of finger-pointing and grandstanding. Whenever one party gains control, they implement the policies most partisan and favorable to them for as long as they can until they lose power again. Politicians from both parties are afraid to present a more moderate stance on any issue of significance in fear of losing their party's support.

BOTH parties are to blame. They are arguing over how to arrange the deck chairs while the water rises...

Elvisio "no idea how to fix it though" Rodriguez

[Pteropus 0]

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why can't we do something that works?

Because there are no perfect solutions to anything. No matter what measures are instituted to solve some problem, the problem-makers will circumvent them or find new ways to continue being problems. And in the process of doing all these things to try and stop the problem-makers, the rest of us who aren't the problem-makers, are burdened more and have less freedom.

That's my cynical view of things.

[billvon 2,998]

>why can't we do something that works?

We do. The air in many cities is cleaner than ever. Our water is cleaner than it was 30 years ago. We are living longer overall. Our cars are cheaper (in real dollars) safer and more efficient than they have ever been. Our clothing is lighter, warmer, longer lasting and cheaper (again in real dollars) than ever before. We are so accustomed to air conditioning, refrigeration and entertainment that losing it for a week is considered a disaster. We can cure most diseases, have eradicated many former plagues, and can even treat formerly fatal diseases like AIDS and cancer.

Our problems are now "rich country" problems - obesity, having too much stuff, not having to exercise enough, generating too much waste. They are a lot better than the alternative, although they are of course still problems.

Go back 200 years and explain to someone living on the American Midwestern frontier how obesity is such a huge problem. They will look at you like you're crazy. Really, our problems aren't all that bad - and we are solving more of them every year. Overall we are headed in the right direction.

[Skyrad 0]

Because something that works will take a lot longer than four years, its as simple as that. We all live in a short termist world, no one is looking past the next year, in business often past the next quarter. In politics whatever is done must be achievable in the term of office or either it will get scrapped when the other guy gets in or he will take the credit if it works and we can't have the good of the country over party politics now can we (see current cluster fuck over the fiscal cliff for example). And so 'something has to be done' politicos can't be seen to do nothing, looks like they don't care and we can't have the public knowing thinking that. So what gets done is what can be done quickly, that which looks like something is being done, it doesn't matter if it works or not, hell its a win win situation; if the current guy makes fast changes he is seen by the public to care and is being dynamic yet if the other guy gets in and repeals the changes the current guy makes he can be attacked as uncaring over the issue or worse uncaring over dead/poor/fat/etc children.

Bottom line is its a game laddie and you're just another pleb pawn.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Bolas 5]

You forgot:

"Do it for children"

"If it helps/saves just one person/child, it's worth it"

The ironic thing is usually the best decision we can make is to either change nothing or reverse the earlier kneejerk decisions made previously when something similar happened.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[champu 1]

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Go back 200 years and explain to someone living on the American Midwestern frontier how obesity is such a huge problem. They will look at you like you're crazy.

Or try explaining that we've mapped subsurface structures of the Moon, are geologically and biologically exploring Mars, and are expanding our study of the formation of solar systems.

[Bolas 5]

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>why can't we do something that works?

We do. The air in many cities is cleaner than ever. Our water is cleaner than it was 30 years ago. We are living longer overall. Our cars are cheaper (in real dollars) safer and more efficient than they have ever been. Our clothing is lighter, warmer, longer lasting and cheaper (again in real dollars) than ever before. We are so accustomed to air conditioning, refrigeration and entertainment that losing it for a week is considered a disaster. We can cure most diseases, have eradicated many former plagues, and can even treat formerly fatal diseases like AIDS and cancer.

Our problems are now "rich country" problems - obesity, having too much stuff, not having to exercise enough, generating too much waste. They are a lot better than the alternative, although they are of course still problems.

Go back 200 years and explain to someone living on the American Midwestern frontier how obesity is such a huge problem. They will look at you like you're crazy. Really, our problems aren't all that bad - and we are solving more of them every year. Overall we are headed in the right direction.

Unfortunately since other countries don't do the same and there are/were not trade requirements requiring the same air/water quality standards to import products to the US, US manufacturing was irreversibly impacted.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[champu 1]

http://theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/12/the-insourcing-boom/309166/

[billvon 2,998]

>Unfortunately since other countries don't do the same and there are/were not trade
>requirements requiring the same air/water quality standards to import products to the
>US, US manufacturing was irreversibly impacted.

Yep. So was tobacco farming, and now coal mining.

Fortunately, other countries (notably China and India) are now adopting similar emissions limitations, and even in countries like Thailand the old "anything goes" rules are being phased out; even the venerable tuk-tuk is being built with cleaner engines.

[turtlespeed 221]

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Quote

Go back 200 years and explain to someone living on the American Midwestern frontier how obesity is such a huge problem. They will look at you like you're crazy.

Or try explaining that we've mapped subsurface structures of the Moon, are geologically and biologically exploring Mars, and are expanding our study of the formation of solar systems.

Or that people vet in a flying covered wagon and intentionally jump out of them.

Let alone that people climb big rocks and deliberately leap off of them with a sheet tied to some strings.

Or even that people will run for miles and miles just to run.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[quade 4]

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This is a refrain we frequently hear from folks, frequently those on the left.

Oh puleeze...

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,998]

>Or try explaining that we've mapped subsurface structures of the Moon

Or just that we've walked on the Moon.

Or - perhaps more remarkable - that there are currently six people living on a space station, and it's so commonplace that almost no one knows their names.

[turtlespeed 221]

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>Or try explaining that we've mapped subsurface structures of the Moon

Or just that we've walked on the Moon.

Or - perhaps more remarkable - that there are currently six people living on a space station, and it's so commonplace that almost no one knows their names.

Meh, they will be rubber boned in a little while anyway.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[champu 1]

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>Or try explaining that we've mapped subsurface structures of the Moon

Or just that we've walked on the Moon.

Or - perhaps more remarkable - that there are currently six people living on a space station, and it's so commonplace that almost no one knows their names.

I'll admit, I never know who the Roscosmos guys are. They put up a lot more first-timers than we do.

[Skyrad 0]

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Go back 200 years and explain to someone living on the American Midwestern frontier how obesity is such a huge problem. They will look at you like you're crazy.

Or try explaining that we've mapped subsurface structures of the Moon, are geologically and biologically exploring Mars, and are expanding our study of the formation of solar systems.

Well done three areas which have nothing to do with us politics or political change.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[tkhayes 348]

Two party system is a problem.

1. get money out of politics. All political donations should be individual, not corporate. All donations regardless of who they came from should be public record.

2. remove any and ALL voter registration that has anything to do with party affiliations. Our tax dollars should not be funding what party you are affiliated with, nor should anyone care.

3. If political parties want to have their own registrations systems, primaries, etc, then they are funded by those political parties. It's a private club, you can join and they can decide whether they want you to join or not.

A few simple changes would do the country and the political systems a world of good. The elected people would actually have to represent the people that put them into office and not some outside interest

[Skyrad 0]

Good ideas, many of which have been adopted in the UK with some differences on how much can be spent.

http://www.loc.gov/law/help/campaign-finance/uk.php

However, while you have some good ideas it still doesn't address the short termist problem which all modern western governments have.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Andy9o8 2]

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We have to do something! This is a refrain we frequently hear from folks, frequently those on the left.

We have done something, Hutch; we've developed and miniaturized powerful computers, and Al Gore invented the Internet, so the usual cadre of droolers will have a 24/7 forum to continuously bash "the left" - in or out of any bona fide context.

Oh, and to keep the skids greased - we've also developed and miniaturized increasingly powerful weapons, so that ordinary bum-fucks can have the ability to wipe out a classroom full of children in just a few minutes, all in the name of "culture".

[cvfd1399 0]

He could have easily done what he did with a 30/30 rifle from 1894... It actually is MORE powerful than the rifle he allegedly used, which is looking like he left in the car and diddnt use anyways.

[Andy9o8 2]

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He could have easily done what he did with a 30/30 rifle from 1894... It actually is MORE powerful than the rifle he allegedly used, which is looking like he left in the car and diddnt use anyways.

Mmm, ok, I should have substituted "efficient", or "high rate of fire" for "powerful".
Oops, now all the hobbyists will come in here and parse that vocabulary. Whatever.

But hey, at least we did something: in the 21st Century, the average Joe Bumfuck can spray-up a schoolyard in a matter of seconds. Whoopie! Yay for us!

[killler 2]

Get it thought your small little brains.... A person hell bent on killing mass amounts of people can use any number of things to do it!!!! It's not the guns its the person...

Killler...

[Andy9o8 2]

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Get it thought your small little brains.... A person hell bent on killing mass amounts of people can use any number of things to do it!!!! It's not the guns its the person...

Killler...

Thank you for both illustrating my exact point, and missing it, all in a single sentence, Triple-L.

[GeorgiaDon 362]

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He could have easily done what he did with a 30/30 rifle from 1894... It actually is MORE powerful than the rifle he allegedly used, which is looking like he left in the car and diddnt use anyways.

Interesting, then, that the Bushmaster was recovered in the school, and a shotgun was recovered from the car, according to the police. Lest you argue that that there is some vast liberal conspiracy to "plant" blame on the "assault gun", I think this fellow, writing in the very conservative publication Red State, has a more rational view.

FFS, next thing you know we'll be hearing that Lanza killed all those people using only a slingshot and pebbles he picked up in the playground, David and Goliath style.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Andy9o8 2]

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Quote

He could have easily done what he did with a 30/30 rifle from 1894... It actually is MORE powerful than the rifle he allegedly used, which is looking like he left in the car and diddnt use anyways.

Interesting, then, that the Bushmaster was recovered in the school, and a shotgun was recovered from the car, according to the police. Lest you argue that that there is some vast liberal conspiracy to "plant" blame on the "assault gun", I think this fellow, writing in the very conservative publication Red State, has a more rational view.

FFS, next thing you know we'll be hearing that Lanza killed all those people using only a slingshot and pebbles he picked up in the playground, David and Goliath style.

Don

Well, at least those 4 firefighters in Rochester weren't shot with a Bushmaster.