tkhayes 348
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ibx 2
The American way of life. You can hardly compare a western European city to an American one. In London there is economic aid, free health care and access to more or less good education for more or less anybody.
You have: lots of Gangs, freely available guns and a wild west mentality. You think longer prison sentences bring down crime instead of reintegration, you think the death penalty deters murderers, you think a ridiculous war on drugs does anything but make drugs cheaper and more readily available and increases violence.
It's the whole every man for himself attitude you right wingers proclaim.
If you would indeed let the state help less fortunate people, give people from poor socio economic backgrounds a fair chance to start life. They may not join a gang, rob your house and murder you in the process.
And sometimes people need a push in the right direction. If you continue your "It's not my responsibility, I don't want to pay for some Ghetto Whores Crack Kid" Then that crack kid will probably grow up and kill somebody along the line.
edited to add:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/texas-judge-oks-ban-planned-parenthood-funding-article-1.1230888
I wonder if all those kids will grow up to be law abiding citizens.
You have: lots of Gangs, freely available guns and a wild west mentality. You think longer prison sentences bring down crime instead of reintegration, you think the death penalty deters murderers, you think a ridiculous war on drugs does anything but make drugs cheaper and more readily available and increases violence.
It's the whole every man for himself attitude you right wingers proclaim.
If you would indeed let the state help less fortunate people, give people from poor socio economic backgrounds a fair chance to start life. They may not join a gang, rob your house and murder you in the process.
And sometimes people need a push in the right direction. If you continue your "It's not my responsibility, I don't want to pay for some Ghetto Whores Crack Kid" Then that crack kid will probably grow up and kill somebody along the line.
edited to add:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/texas-judge-oks-ban-planned-parenthood-funding-article-1.1230888
I wonder if all those kids will grow up to be law abiding citizens.
rushmc 23
QuoteIt is not likely a direct proportional scale, no. But obviously, it is a factor.
There is nothing that would suggest what you said is true
Actually, there is evidence that indicates otherwise
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
wmw999 2,452
Then what does the proportionately lower homicide rate in London mean? Wouldn't it imply even more guns available by that standard?
Wendy P.
Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
rushmc 23
QuoteThen what does the proportionately lower homicide rate in London mean? Wouldn't it imply even more guns available by that standard?
Wendy P.
It does not mean anything as it is an apples and oranges comparison
The violence is about culture
Not about guns
The only way IMO to look at the number of guns vs violence is within a single culture
So, that comparison can only be done in the US (if that is the study group)
And it is very clear, that more guns does not equate to more gun crime
If it did, the funeral homes could not keep up
In Chicago, where guns are still effectively banned (for the most part) shooting are daily
New Years day for example
11 shooting with one fatality
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
Skyrad 0
Quote
It's the whole every man for himself attitude you right wingers proclaim.
If you would indeed let the state help less fortunate people, give people from poor socio economic backgrounds a fair chance to start life. They may not join a gang, rob your house and murder you in the process.
And sometimes people need a push in the right direction. If you continue your "It's not my responsibility, I don't want to pay for some Ghetto Whores Crack Kid" Then that crack kid will probably grow up and kill somebody along the line.
Well that make a change from being called a liberal Brit I guess
Also I hadn't realised that I had the power to make changes on another continent, sure I'm learning a lot today.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
kallend 2,027
QuoteSo I found that the homicide rate is almost five times higher in Chicago than in London, looking at the following facts something quite disturbing appears to be wrong with Chicago.
Area
• London 1,570 km2 (607 sq mi)
• Chicago 2,122.8 sq mi (5,498 km2)
Population
• London 8,173,194
• Density 5,206/km2 (13,466/sq mi)
• Chicago 2,707,120
• Density 11,864.4/sq mi (4,447.4/km2)
Chicago homicide rate 2011, 435 homicides.
Chicago homicide rate 2012, 435 homicides.
London homicide rate 2011, 117 homicides.
I can't find the figures for 2012 yet but I doubt they have increased as the figures have been falling for ten years.
I believe there is a gun ban in both cities in some form. But I want to look further than the simplistic argument about availably of firearms, why is it that the figures for homicide in Chicago are almost five time higher than for London when the population is so much lower and the population so much smaller?
Is emergency medicine that much more accessible and better in London? Are people in Chicago that much more violent than in London? (I seriously doubt it).
1. Chicago's gun ban was overturned June 2010.
2. It's always been trivially easy to get a gun in Chicago - just drive 20 miles to a suburb, go to a gun shop, buy the gun, drive 20 miles back to the city. (There are 2 gun shops within 2 miles of my house in the suburbs.)
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
texascrw 1
QuoteQuoteSo I found that the homicide rate is almost five times higher in Chicago than in London, looking at the following facts something quite disturbing appears to be wrong with Chicago.
Area
• London 1,570 km2 (607 sq mi)
• Chicago 2,122.8 sq mi (5,498 km2)
Population
• London 8,173,194
• Density 5,206/km2 (13,466/sq mi)
• Chicago 2,707,120
• Density 11,864.4/sq mi (4,447.4/km2)
Chicago homicide rate 2011, 435 homicides.
Chicago homicide rate 2012, 435 homicides.
London homicide rate 2011, 117 homicides.
I can't find the figures for 2012 yet but I doubt they have increased as the figures have been falling for ten years.
I believe there is a gun ban in both cities in some form. But I want to look further than the simplistic argument about availably of firearms, why is it that the figures for homicide in Chicago are almost five time higher than for London when the population is so much lower and the population so much smaller?
Is emergency medicine that much more accessible and better in London? Are people in Chicago that much more violent than in London? (I seriously doubt it).
1. Chicago's gun ban was overturned June 2010.
2. It's always been trivially easy to get a gun in Chicago - just drive 20 miles to a suburb, go to a gun shop, buy the gun, drive 20 miles back to the city. (There are 2 gun shops within 2 miles of my house in the suburbs.)
As you pointed out in another post, most of Chicago's murders are gang and drug related. You don't see those people lined up at suburban gun stores filling out paperwork to puchase guns. The last thing that type of scum wants is a gun that can be traced back to them. Assuming that they could even pass the check, or that a store would even want to sell to them. They acquire their guns from theft or other criminals. Shame there isn't a bounty on them like we used to have with coyotes down here. Would make for an improved quaility of life for you and the rest of the law abiding citizens of Chicago.
Fast 0
QuoteSo I found that the homicide rate is almost five times higher in Chicago than in London, looking at the following facts something quite disturbing appears to be wrong with Chicago.
Chicago was the #5 ranked city in the country for segregation. The school system is terrible and people are very poor. Knowing people who lived in the city for a long time the basic rule of thumb was "stay out of the 'bad' neighborhoods because they are dangerous and the cops can't do much about it"
It's a cesspool of problems that most people don't care to even think about.
~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka
turtlespeed 221
You are comparing two polar opposite cultures.
One desperately pursues a way of non conflict and politeness.
The other. . . Well you have heard the term Chicago politics, right?
One desperately pursues a way of non conflict and politeness.
The other. . . Well you have heard the term Chicago politics, right?
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
Skyrad 0
Quote
One desperately pursues a way of non conflict and politeness.
LMAO!! Guess you've never lived in London.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
SkyDekker 1,465
QuoteAs you pointed out in another post, most of Chicago's murders are gang and drug related. You don't see those people lined up at suburban gun stores filling out paperwork to puchase guns. The last thing that type of scum wants is a gun that can be traced back to them.
So where do the majority of illegal guns come from?
QuoteChicago was the #5 ranked city in the country for segregation. The school system is terrible and people are very poor. Knowing people who lived in the city for a long time the basic rule of thumb was "stay out of the 'bad' neighborhoods because they are dangerous and the cops can't do much about it"
It's a cesspool of problems that most people don't care to even think about.
The segregation point, I think, bears some consideration. Here’s an analysis of six months of murders in Chicago (Jan. 2011 – June, 2011).
http://crimeinchicago.blogspot.com/2011/08/chicago-murder-victims-and-offenders-by.html
It’s a problem primarily with blacks. Secondarily with Hispanics. Whites aren’t getting killed much, and are killing even less.
I cannot help but find some racial thing. They are just blacks and Hispanics getting killed, you know? Gang bangers. Other dark-skinned disposable elements of society. They’re keeping in their own neighborhoods, and the housing projects are their fenced in domains. (The efforts to secure the housing projects made them somewhat like fortresses and they are being torn down).
I do think that murders in Chicago are a cultural issue. A subcultural issue, even. Unfortunately, it’s tough to get rid of it.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteSo I found that the homicide rate is almost five times higher in Chicago than in London, looking at the following facts something quite disturbing appears to be wrong with Chicago.
Area
• London 1,570 km2 (607 sq mi)
• Chicago 2,122.8 sq mi (5,498 km2)
Population
• London 8,173,194
• Density 5,206/km2 (13,466/sq mi)
• Chicago 2,707,120
• Density 11,864.4/sq mi (4,447.4/km2)
Chicago homicide rate 2011, 435 homicides.
Chicago homicide rate 2012, 435 homicides.
London homicide rate 2011, 117 homicides.
I can't find the figures for 2012 yet but I doubt they have increased as the figures have been falling for ten years.
I believe there is a gun ban in both cities in some form. But I want to look further than the simplistic argument about availably of firearms, why is it that the figures for homicide in Chicago are almost five time higher than for London when the population is so much lower and the population so much smaller?
Is emergency medicine that much more accessible and better in London? Are people in Chicago that much more violent than in London? (I seriously doubt it).
1. Chicago's gun ban was overturned June 2010. and they still can't get guns because of the bs requirments put in place. so nothing really changed so you can stop that lie
2. It's always been trivially easy to get a gun in Chicago - just drive 20 miles to a suburb, go to a gun shop, buy the gun, drive 20 miles back to the city. (There are 2 gun shops within 2 miles of my house in the suburbs.)
So gun bans dont work
Go figure
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
I think kallend is making the point that a local gun ban won’t work. In order to have an effective ban in Chicago there must be a ban in outlying communities. In order for that to work, the state must ban guns. For that to work, neighboring states also must ban them. For that to work the US has to ban them. For that to work…
My wife is hotter than your wife.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
Fast 0
QuoteQuoteChicago was the #5 ranked city in the country for segregation. The school system is terrible and people are very poor. Knowing people who lived in the city for a long time the basic rule of thumb was "stay out of the 'bad' neighborhoods because they are dangerous and the cops can't do much about it"
It's a cesspool of problems that most people don't care to even think about.
The segregation point, I think, bears some consideration. Here’s an analysis of six months of murders in Chicago (Jan. 2011 – June, 2011).
http://crimeinchicago.blogspot.com/2011/08/chicago-murder-victims-and-offenders-by.html
It’s a problem primarily with blacks. Secondarily with Hispanics. Whites aren’t getting killed much, and are killing even less.
I cannot help but find some racial thing. They are just blacks and Hispanics getting killed, you know? Gang bangers. Other dark-skinned disposable elements of society. They’re keeping in their own neighborhoods, and the housing projects are their fenced in domains. (The efforts to secure the housing projects made them somewhat like fortresses and they are being torn down).
I do think that murders in Chicago are a cultural issue. A subcultural issue, even. Unfortunately, it’s tough to get rid of it.
Most of the people I know also pretty much go with "it's just gang bangers killin each other in the hood so who cares" and subsequently there isn't a huge push to fix the problem.
~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka
tkhayes 348
QuoteQuoteIt is not likely a direct proportional scale, no. But obviously, it is a factor.
There is nothing that would suggest what you said is true
Actually, there is evidence that indicates otherwise
Except for your statement "while this is true, ..."
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteQuoteIt is not likely a direct proportional scale, no. But obviously, it is a factor.
There is nothing that would suggest what you said is true
Actually, there is evidence that indicates otherwise
Except for your statement "while this is true, ..."
Now you want to pars sentences
Nice
Again
What empirical evidence there is, debunks your position
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
jakee 1,500
QuoteSo I found that the homicide rate is almost five times higher in Chicago than in London, looking at the following facts something quite disturbing appears to be wrong with Chicago.
Area
• London 1,570 km2 (607 sq mi)
• Chicago 2,122.8 sq mi (5,498 km2)
Population
• London 8,173,194
• Density 5,206/km2 (13,466/sq mi)
• Chicago 2,707,120
• Density 11,864.4/sq mi (4,447.4/km2)
Something disturbing appears to be wrong with your maths!
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
kallend 2,027
QuoteYou are comparing two polar opposite cultures.
One desperately pursues a way of non conflict and politeness.
The other. . . Well you have heard the term Chicago politics, right?
"Politics ain't beanbag"; Finley Peter Dunne.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Skyrad 0
What does that translate to in English?
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
kallend 2,027
QuoteQuoteQuoteSo I found that the homicide rate is almost five times higher in Chicago than in London, looking at the following facts something quite disturbing appears to be wrong with Chicago.
Area
• London 1,570 km2 (607 sq mi)
• Chicago 2,122.8 sq mi (5,498 km2)
Population
• London 8,173,194
• Density 5,206/km2 (13,466/sq mi)
• Chicago 2,707,120
• Density 11,864.4/sq mi (4,447.4/km2)
Chicago homicide rate 2011, 435 homicides.
Chicago homicide rate 2012, 435 homicides.
London homicide rate 2011, 117 homicides.
I can't find the figures for 2012 yet but I doubt they have increased as the figures have been falling for ten years.
I believe there is a gun ban in both cities in some form. But I want to look further than the simplistic argument about availably of firearms, why is it that the figures for homicide in Chicago are almost five time higher than for London when the population is so much lower and the population so much smaller?
Is emergency medicine that much more accessible and better in London? Are people in Chicago that much more violent than in London? (I seriously doubt it).
1. Chicago's gun ban was overturned June 2010. and they still can't get guns because of the bs requirments put in place. so nothing really changed so you can stop that lie
2. It's always been trivially easy to get a gun in Chicago - just drive 20 miles to a suburb, go to a gun shop, buy the gun, drive 20 miles back to the city. (There are 2 gun shops within 2 miles of my house in the suburbs.)
So gun bans dont work
Go figure
They don't if you can simply drive 15 miles to get around them. Non-uniform laws are a big part of the problem.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
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