Europe...goodbye?

[Longbow1415 0]

Great speach by Mr Cameron this morning.
With luck this is the start of us finally getting out of the un elected and complete usless and very expensive European Union.

Love Europe
Hate the Union with every bone in my body.

[piisfish 140]

bye bye bonfire, hello Speaker's Corner

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[davjohns 1]

I had it playing in the office. Only caught pieces. I didn't see that he was kissing off the Union, but looking to get the UK a better deal within it. Of course, that could be the first step towards the door.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Longbow1415 0]

Yes, he is playing it along the lines of keeping us in Europe by "giving us the facts"
We all know the facts..so however the plus is dressed up and spun...we will say NO
The English Channel is not an accident.

[babz 0]

Whilst I'm not a fan of the expansion of powers that the EU has, and the manner in which it operates. I don't think a straight out is the best option for the UK.

Personally, I'd like to see the trading integration, environmental and security aspects of the EU. I think some of the legislative power needs to be scaled back from Brussels to Westminster where we can have a greater level of accountability.

We are a net contributor to the EU in terms of contribution vs subsidy, however there are some benefits of being in the EU. If Cameron can play hard ball I can't see the EU wanting the UK to leave and I dont think it'll come to that..

I think the vast majority of the EU sceptics would 'sell' their vote against EU membership for concessions on immigration..

[kenthediver 0]

Absolutely agree. I recall reading, can't remember where, that one of the main purposes of the EU was wealth re-distribution, and to create a state geared towards socialism. It is not geared towards capitalism and wealth generation. Taxed beyond any reasonable level!
I personally believe that any political system that is forced onto the population ultimately fails. And I believe that in the next 30 years, the population will start revolting, as they will want their own identity.

[davjohns 1]

The original organization, European Iron and Coal or some such, was to make economic links that would inhibit the Germans invading everyone (especially the French) anymore. Good idea. It grew.

Getting rid of the passports between countries and such was probably good. Not fighting is definitely good. But I think another level of government was too far...and it has run its course. Might be time to remove that extraneous level of government. Not sure where that would leave the economic activity, though. Someone has to mint those Euros.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Longbow1415 0]

Just go back to how we were, individual countries. The years of war are long over, Europe will never fall into that trap again, and i might add British blood has been spilled enough sorting European problems out over the last 300 years.
How can so many different nations and cultures be "united"
Again i say, Europe is superb and full of culture, but i despise the idea of a union.

[davjohns 1]

Easier for the Brits, isn't it? They kept their Pound intact. Maybe they were always thinking of being able to pull out? Culturally, it probably went against the grain to be one of the Union after being an Empire so recently.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

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Just go back to how we were, individual countries. The years of war are long over, Europe will never fall into that trap again, and i might add British blood has been spilled enough sorting European problems out over the last 300 years.
How can so many different nations and cultures be "united"
Again i say, Europe is superb and full of culture, but i despise the idea of a union.

The wars are long over?
Really?

You mean like in the Balkans?

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Longbow1415 0]

I mean World Wars and the Balkans are long over.
And yes, its very easy for us British and im sorry but its us British i am concered about.
It may sound cold but i have no concern for Europe, again i love the place but dont want to be part of it.
And the vast majority of the British people want out..and we will.

[Andy9o8 2]

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The English Channel is not an accident.

Sure it is. About 225,000 years ago the Meuse and Rhine were ice-dammed into a lake that broke catastrophically through a high weak barrier (perhaps chalk, or an end-moraine left by the ice sheet), and the Channel was formed.

Pay attention, people. The devil's in the details.

[lawrocket 3]

I, too, blame climate change...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Longbow1415 0]

"Sure it is.About 225,000 yearsago the Meuseand Rhine were ice-dammed intoa lake that broke catastrophically througha high weak barrier (perhaps chalk, oran end-moraine left by the ice sheet),and the Channel was formed"

I love Google too...cheers

[Longbow1415 0]

Anyway, this is a historic day.
I see the Europeans are not happy at his comments...maybe they will throw us out..now that would be a win win situation.

[babz 0]

The french response was pretty funny, especially as they don't appear to appreciate the irony..

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"You can't do Europe a la carte," Mr Fabius said, responding to the pledges.

"I'll take an example which our British friends will understand. Let's imagine Europe is a football club and you join, but once you're in it you can't say let's play rugby."

Source http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21161842

Given the UK agreed to an trade union in the 70's and the EU has changed into a political / social / economic union...

I love Europe and have for some times considered leaving the UK. However in the minds of the British, we aren't cultural part of one europe. The English Channel is much a gap in ideals/culture as it is a stretch of water..

[piisfish 140]

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The wars are long over?
Really?

You mean like in the Balkans?

and which Balkanic AND European country was at war ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[kenthediver 0]

Indeed, one of the "original" reasons that is touted publically for the Euro Zone is the world war scenario. But I think Civil war and un-rest are now far more likely than inter-country hostilities.
Russia tried something similar - absorbing countries against their will. Eventually the people got tired and wanted their own identity and rebelled, and look at the chaos that came from that!
You also cannot compare Europe to the USA, euro politicians have publically declared they want a U.S. of Europe to combat China's growth and financial strength - but as China's middle class expands (and communism falters), they will run out of steam and will be on a more even footing with the rest of us.
Unlike the USA, which was founded by many diverse people who had fled / left old countries, Europe is trying to force a common identity (and a way of life (socialism)) on people that have very different cultures, personal ethics, work ethics, and traditions.
Also, the original Europe project did not envisage a central goverment, un-elected leader, legal processes driven without consultation, corruption, accounts not signed off SINCE they were started, the list goes on and on.
Each country in Europe is unique and special in their own way, and long may it continue. I (me personally! this is my viewpoint) do not believe that integration is possible. Hell, Greece workers currently retire at 55 - with only some of the workers contributing to their pension fund. UK workers currently retireat 67. Why should I (or anyone else in the UK or a different EU country) subsidise an early retirement for the Greeks? If I was a greek I would not easily accept a later retirement! Why should I? Why should I (as an UK citizen) expect the French, who have a fantastic Health Service, be prepared to boost the NHS which is, quite literally, creaking at the seams? And why should gypsies from other countries, who pay no tax, and do not contribute, come to the UK (or France or Germany or even Spain or one of the other more prosperous contries in the EU) with some of the most generous social care, come and take without repaying anything into the system?
We already have towns in the UK that have more foreigners than English people - the EDL is attracting new members, the neo-nazi monement in Germany is rising! This way will force civil war onto the whole of europe! I hope that the EU collapses sooner rather than later - and we go back to a common market - which is what a lot of europeans want!

[pincheck 0]

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The wars are long over?
Really?

You mean like in the Balkans?

and which Balkanic AND European country was at war ?

Was this not the place where the WW1 was sparked off with the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand ?

I believe UK would be better off out of Europe. I have nothing against European countries but being a Scot we are just trying to get independence (another issue). I feel that as a nation we would perform better outside as its not in our national interest to remain

Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun

[Longbow1415 0]

"I believe UK would be better off out of Europe. I have nothing against European countries but being a Scot we are just trying to get independence (another issue). I feel that as a nation we would perform better outside as its not in our national interest to remain"

Well said and as an Englishman i hope Scotland does get independence (as indeed the majority of English hope too) because your independence is ours too. This could be a great few years for both our countries.

[Abedy 0]

You've never really been part of the union, never really wanted to be. I also think it might a good idea to say goodbye to the EU. I will have to present my passport, might even have to apply for a visa, but that is it. So cheers and Tschüss. We affirmed our friendship with France yesterday, btw. They don't wanna leave the EU

The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

The Society of Skydiving Ducks

[Longbow1415 0]

Exactly well said Abedy. Cameron has put us in a great position. We get what we want or we will get out. I just hope we get nothing then we can get out ASAP.
The Union is a massive failure, being run by un elected fools who are screwing expenses and are bent as Hell. I am loving the response from the Eurpoean leaders, its great to see he has hit a nerve and I look forward to the European boat be rocked and with luck tipped over, then you can get back to being individual countries with own identities and cultures. Abdey, a European union beating of one drum and saluting one flag...mmmmm where have we seen that before..TWICE !!! and failed. (Thanks mainly to the English speaking countries of this world)

[Skyrad 0]

Which would screw the 2 million Brits living and working and claiming dole across Europe.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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Just go back to how we were, individual countries. The years of war are long over, Europe will never fall into that trap again, and i might add British blood has been spilled enough sorting European problems out over the last 300 years.
How can so many different nations and cultures be "united"
Again i say, Europe is superb and full of culture, but i despise the idea of a union.

The problem is not one of cultures, we have people from all over the world living in the UK with many cultures, the problem is one of a one size fits all economy as it clearly doesn't.

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And the vast majority of the British people want out..and we will.

Most likely but seeing as the average Brit gets their information from the Sun and the Daily Mail I question how many people have actually looked at both sides of the argument rather than listen just to the 'here come the scumbag eastern european's to claim our dole and houses brigade'.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Longbow1415 0]

Why are they living in Europe..and not working. Also why will it screw Brits working in Europe, Brits worked in Europe before the Union, and traded and lived.