babz 0 #51 January 25, 2013 A vote to change EU powers being rejected isn't the same as a vote to get out of the EU. Once the british public have spoken it'll be very difficult for the politicians to ignore the response. Can you imagine the response of the British people if Europe tell us (/demand) we do another vote - I'm thinking V for victory here.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #52 January 25, 2013 This is kind of interesting given other recent discussion. Is the EU a union, or a loose confederation of states? Does the UK have the right to secede from the Union? Is it treason?I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
babz 0 #53 January 25, 2013 QuoteThe EU is a unique economic and political partnership between 27 European countries that together cover much of the continent. http://europa.eu/about-eu/basic-information/index_en.htm Started as a economic / trade union back in the late 50's which has 'evolved' (according to site) into a political union. It's not legally a union like we have bound states in the USA, and I cannot see the UK ever submitting to such a direct union. Is it treason to leave the EU? In short, no as each country within the EU maintains its own sovereignty. In the UK we have a discussion around Scotland gaining independence from the UK which does have a strong political / legal binding agreement. No one has mentioned its treason on the part of Scotland. I think confederation of countries is a better term than a European Union as its a confederation is much more like what we have (and sounds like we're in star trek..) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #54 January 25, 2013 "Is it treason to leave the EU? In short, no as each country within the EU maintains its own sovereignty." Interesting. I can think of some states that thought this same thing at one time. There was a big fight over it. Still inspires debate.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kenthediver 0 #55 January 25, 2013 Actually, the European Court of Justice can intervene in and over-ride "soverign country courts" - just see the court of human rights that often rule against a country. Interesting point - to sit on the EUCHR does not require a law degree - it is a political appointment - but it has legal powers. Says a lot!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #56 January 25, 2013 Thing is though, under UK law, parliament is supreme. They cannot even bind themselves. If parliament passed a law tomorrow exiting the country from the EU, under UK law, the UK would have exited. EU laws only govern UK citizens and institutions because parliament says they can. If parliament says it can't... it can't. Yes, there are examples of countries or unions that have had breakaway parts attempt to secede and there have been attempts to stop that by force but really there is absolutely no prospect of that happening even if the EU had that power, which it doesn't. Article 50 of the EU Treaty states that any state can secede at any time. Lisbon provides for a 2 year negotiation period, but if no agreement within that 2 years on the practicalities of secession, it just happens anyway. It's all pie in the sky anyway. In the unlikely event of a vote I doubt the UK would vote out. Despite all the moaning and genuine problems the EU causes, people don't like change and people absolutely hate uncertainty. It's why the politicians got us in the way they did - put us in and then offer a referendum on coming out after the event - because it was easier to get a yes to Europe vote that way. Just look at the Scotland debate - the moment there was any suggestion that Scotland wouldn't automatically be part of the EU, desire for secession dipped dramatically and the NSP threw a fit desperately trying to demonstrate that they would have automatic membership. Cameron's suggestion of a referendum is partly domestic vote winning and partly holding a gun to the EU's head over reform. He's saying "give us what we want or we'll leave and start the unpicking of the whole EU project". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #57 January 25, 2013 QuoteThis is kind of interesting given other recent discussion. Is the EU a union, or a loose confederation of states? Does the UK have the right to secede from the Union? Is it treason? No its not treason as we are all sovereign nations in our own right and not states.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kenthediver 0 #58 January 25, 2013 Cheers for that. I did not know that! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Longbow1415 0 #59 January 27, 2013 It was Treason to take us into a Union without asking the people. The simple truth is we are an Island, I am English / British and never will consider my self European and I am proud to say my children are being raised the same. Let me again say, I love Europe and visit it many times and will continue to do so, i just hate a Union. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #60 January 27, 2013 QuoteQuoteThis is kind of interesting given other recent discussion. Is the EU a union, or a loose confederation of states? Does the UK have the right to secede from the Union? Is it treason? No its not treason as we are all sovereign nations in our own right and not states. Ding! I don't think there was ever a nation called "The Loosely Associated Sovereign Nations So We Can Enslave Darkies of America". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #61 January 27, 2013 Quote I don't think there was ever a nation called "The Loosely Associated Sovereign Nations So We Can Enslave Darkies of America". Nor was there a Loosely Associated Sovereign Nations So We Can Strip Other Sovereign Nations Of Their Economic Well-Being. Oh, wait....My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #62 January 27, 2013 There are no ex-Mafiosi. Just live ones, and dead ones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #63 January 27, 2013 QuoteI don't think there was ever a nation called "The Loosely Associated Sovereign Nations So We Can Enslave Darkies of America". Not even the USA under the Articles of Confederation?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #64 January 27, 2013 QuoteQuoteI don't think there was ever a nation called "The Loosely Associated Sovereign Nations So We Can Enslave Darkies of America". Not even the USA under the Articles of Confederation? I'm pretty sure the A of C were superseded by the Constitution. And the President takes an oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution. Too bad; Article IV of the A of C expressly seeks to perpetuate intercourse. Maybe those old guys were on to something. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
