Andy9o8 2 #1 January 27, 2013 http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/26/us/colorado-fetus-lawsuit/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 QuoteLawyers for Catholic hospital argue that a fetus is not a person Canon City, Colorado (CNN) -- Life begins at conception, according to the Catholic Church, but in a wrongful death suit in Colorado, a Catholic health care company has argued just the opposite. A fetus is not legally a person until it is born, the hospital's lawyers have claimed in its defense. And now it may be up to the state's Supreme Court to decide. Just like all the child molestation cases where they hide behind a statute of limitations. Champions of ethics and morality to the end. Way to set an example, boys. Again. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #2 January 27, 2013 Quotehttp://www.cnn.com/2013/01/26/us/colorado-fetus-lawsuit/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 QuoteLawyers for Catholic hospital argue that a fetus is not a person Canon City, Colorado (CNN) -- Life begins at conception, according to the Catholic Church, but in a wrongful death suit in Colorado, a Catholic health care company has argued just the opposite. A fetus is not legally a person until it is born, the hospital's lawyers have claimed in its defense. And now it may be up to the state's Supreme Court to decide. Just like all the child molestation cases where they hide behind a statute of limitations. Champions of ethics and morality to the end. Way to set an example, boys. Again. . I agree with those attorneys. A fetus can't get a Social Security card or a passport, and doesn't get a tax break - sure fire indicators of personhood.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #3 January 27, 2013 QuoteI agree with those attorneys. So do I. My point still stands. ----- ETA: Actually, foeti apparently do exercise certain rights: http://media.inktastic.com/thumbnails/64898.png Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,367 #4 January 27, 2013 Hi Andy, QuoteJust like all the child molestation cases where they hide behind a statute of limitations. Here in Portland they used bankruptcy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlements_and_bankruptcies_in_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #5 January 27, 2013 QuoteHere in Portland they used bankruptcy. Because they are, after all, quite flat broke. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewGuy2005 53 #6 January 28, 2013 Quote I agree with those attorneys. A fetus can't get a Social Security card or a passport, and doesn't get a tax break - sure fire indicators of personhood. You're joking, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #7 January 28, 2013 In a legal sense, no, he isn't. When does the legal definition of "person" begin? It is impossible to know the moment of conception, so that's not a valid definition. Some women honestly don't know they'r pregnant until they deliver (unlikely though it may sound). When do you think that a legal definition of personhood would begin? Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewGuy2005 53 #8 January 28, 2013 QuoteIn a legal sense, no, he isn't. When does the legal definition of "person" begin? It is impossible to know the moment of conception, so that's not a valid definition. Some women honestly don't know they'r pregnant until they deliver (unlikely though it may sound). When do you think that a legal definition of personhood would begin? Wendy P. When life begins, but I don't know when that is. However, I'm pretty sure it happens before you are given a Social Security number. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #9 January 28, 2013 Wendy and I went through this in a thread last year and agreed we do not have the answer. Personally, I think it is best to err on the safe side and not abort. But, I understand the arguments and justifications in favor. As to Catholics...yes, they are playing an interesting game. They are using the legal definition they reject to defend themselves. I do not approve. Of course, this is the same game used by people who think taxes should be higher, but don't send in extra money. I'm also confused by people who object to the death penalty for a clearly dangerous person, but support aborting a partial born child. It seems to be a facet of human nature that our actions just don't meet our ideals. Churches are made up of humans, why should they be different?I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #10 January 28, 2013 QuoteIt seems to be a facet of human nature that our actions just don't meet our ideals. Churches are made up of humans, why should they be different? Yes many of these questions are facets of human nature, which is also why we should not be writing laws about them to force people into one line of action or the other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #11 January 28, 2013 I can't say I disagree with that position. More so, do you trust people who can't balance a budget or even pass it on time to answer these great questions of life? I don't. I seem to recall Ben Franklin being attributed with a quote that said the only thing worse than democracy were the governments we had tried before. Let's not pretend democracy or republic is perfect.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewGuy2005 53 #12 January 28, 2013 QuoteWendy and I went through this in a thread last year and agreed we do not have the answer. Personally, I think it is best to err on the safe side and not abort. That's how I feel about it as well. We don't have the ability to determine when life begins so don't pretend that we do. Err on the side of caution. It has noting to do with religion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #13 January 28, 2013 Two things: QuoteWhen life begins, but I don't know when that is. However, I'm pretty sure it happens before you are given a Social Security number. You missed his point. He didn't say "when you are given" one. He was addressing the eligibility to get one. The second you are born, you are eligible for one....well, assuming the paperwork is available. Quote That's how I feel about it as well. We don't have the ability to determine when life begins so don't pretend that we do. Err on the side of caution. It has noting to do with religion. It has partly to do with busy-body people trying to take control over a woman's body and her decision-making. If you can't pin-point the beginning of life, how in the world can you base any decision on it? You just can't point to some nebulous cloud and say, "It's in there somewhere." Ahhhh....but we DO have something solid to use....the moment of birth. Simple as that,My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #14 January 28, 2013 Pops: Not disagreeing. But when is the moment of birth? Both of my children were cesarean. Many people choose the moment of birth due to surgery or drugs. So, they choose when it is human and when it is not? What about partial birth abortions? Are they partial humans? Is it then partial murder? My daughter had twins via cesarean. If the doctor took the first out and she said, "Oh, I only wanted one.", could she abort the other right quick? It's all pretty murky for me.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #15 January 28, 2013 All assuming the accuracy of the story...we all know how he media can get it wrong..... QuoteThey said that under state law, an embryo is not person until it is born alive, according to court documents. The Stodghills' twins were deceased when they were removed from their mother's lifeless body. "I didn't even get to hold them," Jeremy Stodghill said. "I have an autopsy picture. That's all I've got." The court agreed with the argument, and Stodghill lost the suit. The court also ruled against Stodghill in the case of his wife for other legal reasons. The hospital and doctors then sued him for over $118,000 legal fees and attempted to garnish his wages, according to a legal document filed on his behalf. As it should be. QuoteLori Stodghill was 28 weeks pregnant when she went to the emergency room of St. Thomas More Hospital in Canon City vomiting and short of breath, according to a court document. She went into cardiac arrest in the lobby. "Lori looked up at me, and then her head went down on her chest," said her husband, Jeremy Stodghill. 'Mericans...unbelievable. So he sues the hospital because they couldn't save her because she was dying when she got there and never made it past the lobby? I have no clue as to why the SC is possibly getting involved.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #16 January 28, 2013 QuoteI have no clue as to why the SC is possibly getting involved. Isn't SC where all the world's problems are solved? lolI know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #17 January 28, 2013 Quote Quote I have no clue as to why the SC is possibly getting involved. Isn't SC where all the world's problems are solved? lol As far as I can tell, the Supreme Court causes as many problems as it solves...depending on how they feel that day and whether they got the 'happy ending' that morning. As far as Speaker's Corner...no problems solved but one great source of hilarious comedy. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #18 January 28, 2013 QuoteQuote I agree with those attorneys. A fetus can't get a Social Security card or a passport, and doesn't get a tax break - sure fire indicators of personhood. You're joking, right? Really? You try to get a SSN, passport or tax break for a fetus and see how you get on.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #19 January 28, 2013 Quote Of course, this is the same game used by people who think taxes should be higher, but don't send in extra money. No, it is not.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
