rushmc 23
DHS says AR15 sporting rifle (and 30 round magazines) suitable for home defense
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rushmc, in Speakers Corner
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davjohns 1
I've actually advocated that in another thread. I received that training in HS. I was on the rifle team. We had hunter's training and were certified per Alabama law to get a hunting license in my JROTC class. This was the initiative of our JROTC instructor and was open to all students.
But, if we are going to teach life skills like cooking, sewing, childcare, etc...why not safe firearms handling? Hell, we teach driving and that's not even a right. We have a problem with teen pregnancy, so we teach sex ed. We have a problem with drug use and DUI, so we have awareness programs for that. Why is it the solution to nutters with guns is to punish law abiding citizens?
With so many other social issues, we advocate education / awareness. With this issue, we want to take away someone else's rights?
When I was a teen, we loaded up firearms and went shooting regularly. No issues. Trucks in the HS parking lot had shotguns in the rear window because someone went hunting before school. No issues. I drove my dad's car and there was always a pistol in the console. No issues. I can't think of any of my friends who couldn't claim to have a personal firearm before we could legally drive. No issues. Back then, I didn't know anyone who owned a gun safe. Now, we all do. Today, we have more restrictive laws on firearms and we are much more careful about storing them and letting youth handle them, yet we have more issues. Maybe more laws about guns isn't the solution?
But, if we are going to teach life skills like cooking, sewing, childcare, etc...why not safe firearms handling? Hell, we teach driving and that's not even a right. We have a problem with teen pregnancy, so we teach sex ed. We have a problem with drug use and DUI, so we have awareness programs for that. Why is it the solution to nutters with guns is to punish law abiding citizens?
With so many other social issues, we advocate education / awareness. With this issue, we want to take away someone else's rights?
When I was a teen, we loaded up firearms and went shooting regularly. No issues. Trucks in the HS parking lot had shotguns in the rear window because someone went hunting before school. No issues. I drove my dad's car and there was always a pistol in the console. No issues. I can't think of any of my friends who couldn't claim to have a personal firearm before we could legally drive. No issues. Back then, I didn't know anyone who owned a gun safe. Now, we all do. Today, we have more restrictive laws on firearms and we are much more careful about storing them and letting youth handle them, yet we have more issues. Maybe more laws about guns isn't the solution?
I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..
But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.
But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.
rushmc 23
QuoteI've actually advocated that in another thread. I received that training in HS. I was on the rifle team. We had hunter's training and were certified per Alabama law to get a hunting license in my JROTC class. This was the initiative of our JROTC instructor and was open to all students.
But, if we are going to teach life skills like cooking, sewing, childcare, etc...why not safe firearms handling? Hell, we teach driving and that's not even a right. We have a problem with teen pregnancy, so we teach sex ed. We have a problem with drug use and DUI, so we have awareness programs for that. Why is it the solution to nutters with guns is to punish law abiding citizens?
With so many other social issues, we advocate education / awareness. With this issue, we want to take away someone else's rights?
When I was a teen, we loaded up firearms and went shooting regularly. No issues. Trucks in the HS parking lot had shotguns in the rear window because someone went hunting before school. No issues. I drove my dad's car and there was always a pistol in the console. No issues. I can't think of any of my friends who couldn't claim to have a personal firearm before we could legally drive. No issues. Back then, I didn't know anyone who owned a gun safe. Now, we all do. Today, we have more restrictive laws on firearms and we are much more careful about storing them and letting youth handle them, yet we have more issues. Maybe more laws about guns isn't the solution?
Yes
We used to take our rifles and shot guns to school (in the parking lot) to show other or to go hunting after class
I was shooting for at least 6 years before I got to drive legally
The other thing about this thread that is disapointing is the direction the first couple of posters took it
This thread simply states that the gov has determined that AR15's are suitable for home defense. The gov therefore directly answers the gun banner question of why anyone but the military would need one
And they are suited for the job well
When used with a 55 grain frangible bullet it is safer than many hand guns
Oh well
I am used to the misdirection many use here
It is just sad
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
QuoteThere are lots of things LEO's do to improve their chances that a regular guy wouldn't want to or need to.
Such as? And why in the world would anyone not want to improve their chances? And how do you define "need" that covers all situations. That's just crazy.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
davjohns 1
QuoteQuoteThere are lots of things LEO's do to improve their chances that a regular guy wouldn't want to or need to.
Such as? And why in the world would anyone not want to improve their chances? And how do you define "need" that covers all situations. That's just crazy.
I missed this the first time. I'm going to jump in with Pops. What did I do when I was a cop that I don't do now? I've apparently forgotten.
I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..
But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.
But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.
wmw999 2,444
I also agree. And I also don't think that parents should be able to opt their kids out of this training, just as I don't think that parents should be able to opt their kids out of sex education.
Wendy P.
Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
Quotehttp://tinypic.com/r/rl9udt/6
Thats my Brinks home security.
I have a cat that would have that dog huddling in a corner, whining like a beat puppy.
Nice looking dog.
Andy9o8 2
QuoteEver wonder why some cops can fire 15rds and hit nothing but bystanders?
I figured they were just letting God sort 'em out.
Andy9o8 2
QuoteI was shooting for at least 6 years before I got to drive legally
Well, the technique is basically the same: aim for center mass.
davjohns 1
Shit. Andy's up. And he's had his coffee.
Hi, Andy!
I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..
But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.
But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.
skypuppy 1
QuoteQuoteYou are a nugget. What part of safely shooting in buildings would not apply to you or me? I don't see how who you are working for would matter. Why should a father trying to protect his children be less concerned with safety than a prick like me?
Seriously? You don't understand the everyday difference between an LEO and a regular Joe who wants a weapon for self defence? There are lots of things LEO's do to improve their chances that a regular guy wouldn't want to or need to.
seems to me you're presupposing that 'a regular guy' thinks just like you do. That may be true of you and your friends where you live. But me and many of my friends have almost a diametrically-opposed vision of what 'a regular guy' would want or need to do, and as far as I know, we're pretty much all 'regular guys' around here.
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone
kallend 2,026
QuoteAn AR/M16 is the perfect home defense weapon. The 5.56 doesn't penetrate though sheet rock like the 9mm does (hard to believe but true). Lots of agencies are going to the AR/M16 for just this reason. It's simply safer than having people shooting glocks or MP5's inside apartment buildings.
That and most are going to hit more often with an AR than a pistol.
A shotgun would be better still.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
davjohns 1
Interesting read on the term 'assault weapon'.
http://www.assaultweapon.info/
http://www.assaultweapon.info/
I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..
But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.
But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.
blueblur 0
QuoteQuoteThat's one of my intruder alert systems. Combined with the alarm system and the night lighting, it announces that the range is open and targets are about to present themselves.
You guys must fantasize about some serious invaders.
I envision a 75lb shepherd as enough for a random home invader looking for my xbox to turn around.
I dont see them trying to continue their burglary lol.
When Chuck Norris attacks you are going to need your 5 layer system though, I will give you that.
As the owner of a 75lb shepherd myself, I can tell you unless your dog has had protection training, most dogs are easily circumvented. Nice ham bone or treat or even just a very confident person can get around him.
In every man's life he will be allotted one good woman and one good dog. That's all you get, so appreciate them while the time you have with them lasts.
- RiggerLee
- RiggerLee
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe majority of the single week out of the 17-weeks of an academy was spent on firearms. The majority of that deals with the legal aspects and the use of force ideals, not actual time on trigger.
Actually, Dave. That's exactly in line with what I was thinking. Some mandatory training of the legal responsibilities of ownership.
How does that solve a problem?
Well, it might help keep your kids from stealing your guns and shooting you in the face and then going on to shoot up a bunch of other kids.
If being shot in the face by your own child isn't motivation enough, how the hell would a threat of imprisoning your corpse make you more likely to comply?
Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)
(drink Mountain Dew)
rushmc 23
QuoteInteresting read on the term 'assault weapon'.
http://www.assaultweapon.info/
Well written and right on target
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteQuoteWell go figure
http://radioviceonline.com/department-of-homeland-security-sport-rifle-ar-15-suitable-for-personal-defense/
From the linkQuoteSection C of solicitation number HSCEMS-12-R-00011 is pretty specific. Here is a direct link to the Section C PDF (246KB). My emphasis in bold. Notice the term assault weapon or assault rifle is not used anywhere in the document.
The scope of this contract is to provide a total of up to 7,000 5.56x45mm North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) personal defense weapons (PDW) throughout the life of this contract to numerous Department of Homeland Security components. …
In paragraph 3.1 under requirements and testing standards we read…
DHS and its components have a requirement for a 5.56x45mm NATO, select-fire firearm suitable for personal defense use in close quarters and/or when maximum concealment is required.
Isn’t that inconvenient for the gun control politicians? In requirement paragraph 3.9.10, they find a need for a 30-round magazine.
The action shall be capable of accepting all standard NATO STANAG 20 and 30 round M16 magazines (NSN 1005-00-921-5004) and Magpul 30 round PMAG (NSN 1005-01-576-5159). The magazine well shall be designed to allow easy insertion of a magazine.
In paragraph 3.21.2, they again specify the requirement for a 30-round magazine.
The magazine shall have a capacity to hold thirty (30) 5.56x45mm NATO rounds.
Did you forget to quote the part talking about private citizens needing them for home defense?
All I saw in the parts you quoted was providing weapons for Law Enforcement?
The DHS doesn't say that at all - rushmc is being disingenuous (go figure). The author of the piece says that.
The DHS is purely trying to procure a weapon for its LEO's to use.
The rights and wrongs of gun control aside, I'm not sure I agree with the author about an AR being a good home defense weapon anyway - if only from a portability point of view.
Read it again
All I pointed out was that an AR15 is considered a good gun for home defense
WHO gets to have one is a different argument
But, in that context, if it is OK or one person to use one for home defense, why not me?
The Feds with have a select fire gun and I know I will not. However, the only disengenuousness here, is yours
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
Hey
You gave me an idea
Since the left thinks that rights (in many cases) should be provided FREE by the gov, the gov should include firearms training in all public schools for evey child
Then when they are of age, they just show the hey I am trained card and get a gun
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
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