Assult weapons ban dropped in the Senate

[kallend 2,026]

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I think your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose. I don't mind people whose riskier pastimes increase overall societal costs a minuscule teeny bit per person; obviously I'm one of the people who does that. But other people's non-use of motorcycle helmets and seatbelts really does translate into a material chunk of extra change out of my wallet for the auto insurance premiums I have to pay, so I do feel personally invested in it.

Normiss I suppose this responds to you, too.

But to all, sorry for the digression. Back to guns, God and America.

An 80% reduction in traffic fatalities is rather more than a teeny bit of savings.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 798]

Given the significant changes to auto design for safety reasons, really makes your post laughable.
You go ahead and hang your safety hat on all that seat belt success if you want.
Much like your background checks won't sort out the nutters.
Which is where the problem is.
Feel free to add criminals as well - but you must know they could care less about abiding the law. Background and loony checks will NEVER prevent criminals from being criminals.
OK - duck and dodge time.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Perhaps you'll explain how the ability of a felon to bypass all background checks by going to a gunshow in, say, Nevada, and buying openly from a "private" seller is a good thing, and how closing that loophole is a bad thing.

OK, I am honestly confused. This is legal?!?!?!

If this is currently a legal scenario, then I agree, we must fix this.

Derek V

[skypuppy 1]

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Perhaps you'll explain how the ability of a felon to bypass all background checks by going to a gunshow in, say, Nevada, and buying openly from a "private" seller is a good thing, and how closing that loophole is a bad thing.

This law is not just about a private seller
As proposed, if you wish to sell or give a gun that was (lets just say) given to you by your grandfather, you would have to go to an FFL for checks. Seems ok at this point. However, as the seller, you would need to provide, to the cops or the FFL, proof of ownership. Since grand dad gave you the gun, you do not have any. At this point, this gun becomes illegal for you to own, a record of this is kept, and now, because you have an illegal gun, the police have reason to search your house for guns. Since you now are a criminal because you posess a gun that you can not prove is yours, your have NO right to any gun and therefore, all your guns are taken.

Simple enough huh

this was part of the problem after the large scale gun confiscations in new orleans following the hurricane. That and the fact that leo's and national guards confiscating the weapons weren't issuing any receipts, and sometimes just smashed the guns against the curb in front of the owners...

I never did hear, did they know who had guns? If so, how did they know?

Or did they just go door to door fishing?

from what I saw on news videos, they went door to door busting in and doing illegal searches and seizures, stopped vehicles, boats and pedestrians on public travelways doing illegal search and seizure, and when issued with stop orders resisted for days and even weeks until no longer able to. They issued no receipts for these weapons. Many of the guns were destroyed upon being taken from their legal owners (and illegal owners, I guess, since they didn't seem to see any difference whether a gun was legally owned or not). Others were destroyed by conditions of storage before after a period of years, despite the city denying they had them, they were finally given back to some of their owners. Many as you have pointed out, had no documents to prove ownership (especially after their homes had been destroyed) and so never got their property back.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[normiss 798]

It is ILLEGAL for a convicted FELON to possess a weapon.
Kallend knows this.

Given they've already disregarded the laws REPEATEDLY can you tell me how making yet another law could help?

Reality - some are quite unfamiliar with it.

[billvon 2,990]

>It is ILLEGAL for a convicted FELON to possess a weapon.

Yes. Felons do illegal things; though; it's how they become felons.

What specifically would stop a convicted felon from walking into a gun show, finding a private seller, and buying a handgun for his next robbery?

[rushmc 23]

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>It is ILLEGAL for a convicted FELON to possess a weapon.

Yes. Felons do illegal things; though; it's how they become felons.

What specifically would stop a convicted felon from walking into a gun show, finding a private seller, and buying a handgun for his next robbery?

Nothing

Not even the proposed laws could or would do that

Which is the point

Only law abiding will be affected

Criminals will do what they wish

And nothing will change

New law or no new law

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 798]

So are you seriously starting to understand?
'bought damn time.

[billvon 2,990]

>Nothing

Correct! Any violent felon can just walk into a gun show (or even a swap meet) and buy as many guns as he likes.

Now, let's say the seller was required to to a background check before selling. Might that prevent the sale?

[normiss 798]

No, they simply cannot do this LEGALLY.

Now, let's start adding MORE LAWS THEY IGNORE.

jebus.

[rushmc 23]

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>Nothing

Correct! Any violent felon can just walk into a gun show (or even a swap meet) and buy as many guns as he likes.

Now, let's say the seller was required to to a background check before selling. Might that prevent the sale?

Nope

The law abiding do it (for the most part) already

The only thing that will change is the law abiding will be come criminal under this law whether they sell to a legal buyer or not

LEO's have stated country wide that this type of law it totally unenforceble

It is acomplete waste of time and debate

Unless there are unspoken agendas (well, some are speaking to their agendas)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[sfzombie 3]

i am not a felon or a criminal, but i can go to a couple of different places and buy a gun without a background check. i would not do so, they are mostly stolen or used in a crime. a lot of felons have considerably more connections than myself, so in effect, it would be easier.

http://kitswv.com

[kallend 2,026]

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Perhaps you'll explain how the ability of a felon to bypass all background checks by going to a gunshow in, say, Nevada, and buying openly from a "private" seller is a good thing, and how closing that loophole is a bad thing.

OK, I am honestly confused. This is legal?!?!?!

If this is currently a legal scenario, then I agree, we must fix this.

Derek V

It is NOT legal but there is no check to prevent it in 33 states. So in those states it is TRIVIALLY easy for a felon or other disqualified individual to buy a gun. And if said felon lives in one of the 17 states that does require a check, all they have to do is drive to one of the other 33 and buy the gun there.

THAT is the whole point.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,026]

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So are you seriously starting to understand?
'bought damn time.

So it is OK with you that FELON can go to a gun show and buy a gun with no BG check?

Kindly explain why this is such a great idea.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,026]

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>Nothing

Correct! Any violent felon can just walk into a gun show (or even a swap meet) and buy as many guns as he likes.

Now, let's say the seller was required to to a background check before selling. Might that prevent the sale?

Nope

The law abiding do it (for the most part) already

The only thing that will change is the law abiding will be come criminal under this law whether they sell to a legal buyer or not

LEO's have stated country wide that this type of law it totally unenforceble

It is acomplete waste of time and debate

Unless there are unspoken agendas (well, some are speaking to their agendas)

So it is OK with you that FELON can go to a gun show and buy a gun with no BG check in any one of 33 states (but NOT Iowa)?

Kindly explain why this is such a great idea.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,990]

>The only thing that will change is the law abiding will be come criminal
>under this law whether they sell to a legal buyer or not

?? Not at all. They do the background check, then sell the gun. No "becoming a criminal."

>LEO's have stated country wide that this type of law it totally unenforceble

And yet they catch licensed sellers who break this law, somehow.

[kallend 2,026]

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LEO's have stated country wide that this type of law it totally unenforceble

No, they have not.

"Police Chiefs' Perceptions of the Regulation of Firearms," conducted by researchers from the University of Toledo, Kent State University, and Wayne State University and published in the April issue of the American Journal of Preventive Medicine, found that law enforcement leaders support several gun control proposals opposed by the National Rifle Association (NRA).

Measures backed by at least 75 percent of police chiefs surveyed include requiring background checks for all handgun purchases (supported by 93.5 percent); equipping new handguns with trigger locks (82.7 percent); requiring background checks for all rifle and shotgun purchases; and requiring the addition of tamper-resistant serial numbers on firearms (81.5 percent).

The study concluded that most police chiefs believe gun rights must yield to public safety: "When asked whether they agreed with the statement that the government should do everything it can to keep handguns out of the hands of criminals, even if it means making it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to purchase handguns, again the majority (63%) indicated that they agreed with this statement," the authors said.

Please provide a link to support your claim.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 798]

Now you're just being silly and you know it.
I've never said any such thing.

You can also just as easily walk into your nearest bank and rob them at gunpoint.

Or murder someone.

Or cheat on your taxes.

Or steal from people.

Or cheat on your spouse.

Or drive intoxicated.

Or overfly a Disney property.

[kallend 2,026]

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Now you're just being silly and you know it.
I've never said any such thing.

You can also just as easily walk into your nearest bank and rob them at gunpoint.

Or murder someone.

Or cheat on your taxes.

Or steal from people.

Or cheat on your spouse.

Or drive intoxicated.

Or overfly a Disney property.

So enforcement processes are in place to help prevent these illegal acts and help catch the perps. All universal background checks do is bring illegal gun sales in line.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 798]

AGAIN, this does nothing to deal with the problem.

Adding more laws on top of existing laws will fix nothing.

Background checks (which interestingly enough are already in place) are unable to magically expose loonies.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Kent State University*

*Boasting a rich tradition of live-fire exercises since 1970.

[wmw999 2,439]

The required performance of a background check will stop some people who have intervening convictions from purchasing guns. To be able to buy at gun shows, an annual background-check-performed card (which, yes, can be invalidated by a subsequent felony conviction or restraining order where the guy doesn't turn the card in) can provide a break in one chain of events that can lead to an illegally-acquired firearm. As it stands, there is no legal way whatsoever to enforce the laws on the books.

Who here never speeds, even when they know there's no enforcement? Thought so.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Hooknswoop 19]

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It is NOT legal but there is no check to prevent it in 33 states. So in those states it is TRIVIALLY easy for a felon or other disqualified individual to buy a gun. And if said felon lives in one of the 17 states that does require a check, all they have to do is drive to one of the other 33 and buy the gun there.

How would a universal background check be enforced?

Derek V

[Bertt 0]

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What specifically would stop a convicted felon from walking into a gun show, finding a private seller, and buying a handgun for his next robbery?

The bars on a prison cell ??

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[billvon 2,990]

>The bars on a prison cell ??

OK. So you're proposing jailing all felons for life?