So what about the kids? This thread is about Gay Parents

[oldwomanc6 52]

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>Maybe by poll but not by law.

Correct. And as mentioned before, that is changing quite rapidly. Currently it is only completely illegal in 10 states. Three more allow one of the two parents to adopt even when they are in a committed same-sex relationship, but do not allow both to adopt. The rest either explicitly allow it or do not prohibit it, leaving it up to adoption agencies.

>Yes it is true many more people support gay marriage but discussion about adoption is absent.

Google search "gay couple adoption" results:

About 6,500,000 results (0.32 seconds)

Evidently, mums the word.







or dad, or mom or papa or mama, in any combination. Nope, no one is talking about it.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[mistercwood 287]

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or dad, or mom or papa or mama, in any combination. Nope, no one is talking about it.

Shhh, don't give him ideas. Next he'll be asking us what special names does the kid have to use for his parents... Is it Dad #1 and Dad #2? Which one's more important? Which one's the real daddy and which one's the mummy? How confusing will this be for the poor tike? Won't somebody please think of the children??

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[OHCHUTE 0]

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>Maybe by poll but not by law.

Correct. And as mentioned before, that is changing quite rapidly. Currently it is only completely illegal in 10 states. Three more allow one of the two parents to adopt even when they are in a committed same-sex relationship, but do not allow both to adopt. The rest either explicitly allow it or do not prohibit it, leaving it up to adoption agencies.

>Yes it is true many more people support gay marriage but discussion about adoption is absent.

Google search "gay couple adoption" results:

About 6,500,000 results (0.32 seconds)

Although you may get lots of hits, including this one, important conversations have been sidelined:

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1011/supreme_court_gay_adoption.php3#.UVA3qxw4uSo

Again, as many who are keen on gays getting married, I doubt the results would be the same for gay adoption. The matter right now before the Supreme Court is same sex marriages, not gays adoption of children. I suspect that will come at a later date once gays are given the right to legally marry. Oh to think of custody battles over a young baby boy between two combatant gay dudes.

In any event, divorce lawyers are salivating. As many more people get married, they'll be more cases to litigate.

[mistercwood 287]

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Oh to think of custody battles over a young baby boy between two combatant gay dudes.

For someone who keeps claiming the verdict is out, you make it pretty damn clear where your ideology lies.... OR you're a Grand Master Troll, who knows?

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[jakee 1,489]

I think everyone knows

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,991]

>Although you may get lots of hits

OH:"There's no discussion about gay adoption. It's absent."
BV:"Here are over six million discussions."
OH:"OK so there are six million. But they're all sidelined."

>Oh to think of custody battles over a young baby boy between two combatant
>gay dudes.

I've seen much worse from heterosexual couples.

>In any event, divorce lawyers are salivating. As many more people get married,
>they'll be more cases to litigate.

While there will indeed be more divorces, I doubt many people are salivating at the (maybe) 5% increase in marriages.

[LyraM45 0]

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Two bisexual married men who both have have multiple sex partners yet want to raise kids, has little consequences on child bearing? So basically you are saying an amoral society is OK. That is of course if you think is OK for the guy's to have sex outside of marriage? I'm including B's as in LGBT getting married as I suspect the B's and T's shouldn't be left out of the discussion.

Then there are morals.

Why, in your mind, is that just a gay thing? You think hetero couples don't have open relationships like that? If not, you need to get out more often!

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This whole country is about people telling people what to do, but once you attempt to tell gays what to do, they get all nasty and defensive.

You mean, kinda like how straight people are telling gays who they can and can not marry? Got it. If somebody told you that you couldn't marry your significant other, you wouldn't be at all offended? Or get nasty and defensive?

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There may be no responsibilty but don't you think the child is deserving of having a mom, or is the culture so narcissictic the interest of the child comes secondary to the mere fact that Frank and Tom want to raise a kid.

How dare those single parents have the audacity to raise their kids without their hetero counterparts after a divorce! If having a single gender raise you is so devastating, how come kids from a divorced family or raised by 1 parent aren't all screwed up?



You keep on about this whole "jury is out thing," but it sounds like it's not really out for you. You've settled on your opinion (or at least it sounds like you have), and what is funny is you probably have no personal experience with gay couples raising children. Do you know any? Do you know any peers who were brought up my gay parents? I know both, and guess what-- some of those kids came out plenty more accomplished than friends I have that were raised by straight parents. Doesn't mean that all gay kids come out like that, and it doesn't mean that all straight kids come out all f'd up. A kid is a kid, and who they grow up to be is going to be is shaped more by how they were raised and not the gender or sexual preference of who raised them.

I just went to a bachelor party for my friend and his partner. They have been approved to adopt a 5 year old boy in June after they are married. Both have higher degrees (one getting his PhD at the moment), both have great jobs, both are amazing people, and they can both provide a loving and nurturing home for a boy who needs one. I think of it this way...... It sounds to me like you'd rather see a kid stay in an abusive crack house with a traditional mom/dad set up versus growing up with two accomplished people like my friend and his partner. I just don't see how that makes sense.

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[OHCHUTE 0]

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Two bisexual married men who both have have multiple sex partners yet want to raise kids, has little consequences on child bearing? So basically you are saying an amoral society is OK. That is of course if you think is OK for the guy's to have sex outside of marriage? I'm including B's as in LGBT getting married as I suspect the B's and T's shouldn't be left out of the discussion.

Then there are morals.

Why, in your mind, is that just a gay thing? You think hetero couples don't have open relationships like that? If not, you need to get out more often!

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This whole country is about people telling people what to do, but once you attempt to tell gays what to do, they get all nasty and defensive.

You mean, kinda like how straight people are telling gays who they can and can not marry? Got it. If somebody told you that you couldn't marry your significant other, you wouldn't be at all offended? Or get nasty and defensive?

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There may be no responsibilty but don't you think the child is deserving of having a mom, or is the culture so narcissictic the interest of the child comes secondary to the mere fact that Frank and Tom want to raise a kid.

How dare those single parents have the audacity to raise their kids without their hetero counterparts after a divorce! If having a single gender raise you is so devastating, how come kids from a divorced family or raised by 1 parent aren't all screwed up?



You keep on about this whole "jury is out thing," but it sounds like it's not really out for you. You've settled on your opinion (or at least it sounds like you have), and what is funny is you probably have no personal experience with gay couples raising children. Do you know any? Do you know any peers who were brought up my gay parents? I know both, and guess what-- some of those kids came out plenty more accomplished than friends I have that were raised by straight parents. Doesn't mean that all gay kids come out like that, and it doesn't mean that all straight kids come out all f'd up. A kid is a kid, and who they grow up to be is going to be is shaped more by how they were raised and not the gender or sexual preference of who raised them.

I just went to a bachelor party for my friend and his partner. They have been approved to adopt a 5 year old boy in June after they are married. Both have higher degrees (one getting his PhD at the moment), both have great jobs, both are amazing people, and they can both provide a loving and nurturing home for a boy who needs one. I think of it this way...... It sounds to me like you'd rather see a kid stay in an abusive crack house with a traditional mom/dad set up versus growing up with two accomplished people like my friend and his partner. I just don't see how that makes sense.

Interesting how you combine rasing a child by single parent out of a divorse when the topic is about gays getting married and having kids. They're different topics. I think this is the liberal gay left attemp to rationalize the behavior to the likeness of heterosexual mores. When they are not the same.

Adoption is always about the kids. And should some guy dressed up in a girls outfit, come into an adoption agency wanting to adopt a kid, PHD or not, then YOU can only imagine what might come of that. Like there would be no discussion about wether or not it should go through? Don't think so.There would be discussion. Like I said, gay marriage is a realatively new idea. Not all state approve of gay marriage and here you are advocating rasing kids in a marrage! We're not near the adoption question yet. It's not registered on societies phyche yet.
Do what they did in Canada: get homsexuals elected to office and get the rules changed. Pretty simple.

[Andy9o8 2]

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In any event, divorce lawyers are salivating. As many more people get married, they'll be more cases to litigate.

Daz nod twoo.

[wmw999 2,447]

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Adoption is always about the kids. And should some guy dressed up in a girls outfit, come into an adoption agency wanting to adopt a kid, PHD or not, then YOU can only imagine what might come of that.

Most gay men don't dress in women's clothing. And it's the adoption agency's job to imagine "what might come of that."

Gay adoption is currently legal in many places in the US where gay marriage isn't.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[OHCHUTE 0]

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Two bisexual married men who both have have multiple sex partners yet want to raise kids, has little consequences on child bearing? So basically you are saying an amoral society is OK. That is of course if you think is OK for the guy's to have sex outside of marriage? I'm including B's as in LGBT getting married as I suspect the B's and T's shouldn't be left out of the discussion.

Then there are morals.

Why, in your mind, is that just a gay thing? You think hetero couples don't have open relationships like that? If not, you need to get out more often!

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This whole country is about people telling people what to do, but once you attempt to tell gays what to do, they get all nasty and defensive.

You mean, kinda like how straight people are telling gays who they can and can not marry? Got it. If somebody told you that you couldn't marry your significant other, you wouldn't be at all offended? Or get nasty and defensive?

Quote

There may be no responsibilty but don't you think the child is deserving of having a mom, or is the culture so narcissictic the interest of the child comes secondary to the mere fact that Frank and Tom want to raise a kid.

How dare those single parents have the audacity to raise their kids without their hetero counterparts after a divorce! If having a single gender raise you is so devastating, how come kids from a divorced family or raised by 1 parent aren't all screwed up?



You keep on about this whole "jury is out thing," but it sounds like it's not really out for you. You've settled on your opinion (or at least it sounds like you have), and what is funny is you probably have no personal experience with gay couples raising children. Do you know any? Do you know any peers who were brought up my gay parents? I know both, and guess what-- some of those kids came out plenty more accomplished than friends I have that were raised by straight parents. Doesn't mean that all gay kids come out like that, and it doesn't mean that all straight kids come out all f'd up. A kid is a kid, and who they grow up to be is going to be is shaped more by how they were raised and not the gender or sexual preference of who raised them.

I just went to a bachelor party for my friend and his partner. They have been approved to adopt a 5 year old boy in June after they are married. Both have higher degrees (one getting his PhD at the moment), both have great jobs, both are amazing people, and they can both provide a loving and nurturing home for a boy who needs one. I think of it this way...... It sounds to me like you'd rather see a kid stay in an abusive crack house with a traditional mom/dad set up versus growing up with two accomplished people like my friend and his partner. I just don't see how that makes sense.

You asked if I knew any gays: I supervised nearly 100 gay men. Most were good workers and made the firm I worked for a lot of money, but never did I hear anything regarding values, family, raising kids. It was mostly about poppers, dancing, getting layed and docs they might see for there their medical problems. Many of these guys died with aids. Their obitz's are on the internet. Many ended up homeless living in cars etc. At that time, I'm not sure I'd approve anyone I knew to care for children. But times have changed and so have belief's from those days long ago. So has the marketing and advertising and the money pushing agenda's. Look what happened in Canada: many homosexuals were elected to office and the rules changed. But the fact remains: the norm for the world is heterosexual marriage and the rasing of kids via that union is also standard.

[billvon 2,991]

>You asked if I knew any gays: I supervised nearly 100 gay men. Most were good
>workers and made the firm I worked for a lot of money, but never did I hear anything
>regarding values, family, raising kids. It was mostly about poppers, dancing, getting
>layed and docs they might see for there their medical problems.

So they're more like freeflyers?

[Remster 30]

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>You asked if I knew any gays: I supervised nearly 100 gay men. Most were good
>workers and made the firm I worked for a lot of money, but never did I hear anything
>regarding values, family, raising kids. It was mostly about poppers, dancing, getting
>layed and docs they might see for there their medical problems.

So they're more like freeflyers?

That's not very nice, Bill. I thought you respected the gay community.

Remster

[rehmwa 2]

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>You asked if I knew any gays: I supervised nearly 100 gay men. Most were good
>workers and made the firm I worked for a lot of money, but never did I hear anything
>regarding values, family, raising kids. It was mostly about poppers, dancing, getting
>layed and docs they might see for there their medical problems.

So they're more like freeflyers?

well, I'd have to think twice about freeflyers being allowed to adopt....better than CrW dogs, anyway.....at least cleaner

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,991]

>Interesting how you combine rasing a child by single parent out of a divorse when the
>topic is about gays getting married and having kids. They're different topics.

"The best environment for raising kids" is the topic. (It's even right there in the title of the thread - "So what about the kids?") And a committed gay couple is, in general, a better environment than a divorced dad with demonstrated commitment problems - and both are probably better than leaving them in orphanages.

>Adoption is always about the kids.

Definitely. And overall you help kids by letting more committed couples adopt.

> Not all state approve of gay marriage and here you are advocating rasing kids in a
>marrage! We're not near the adoption question yet. It's not registered on societies
>phyche yet.


=====================
More Americans Support Gay Adoption

By Daniel Merkle
N E W Y O R K, April 2 2008

Public support for allowing gay couples to adopt children has risen to a slim plurality in the latest ABCNEWS.com poll.

Supporters of same-sex adoption now outnumber opponents, if only slightly, for the first time in 10 years of polling on the subject. Forty-seven percent think gay couples should be legally permitted to adopt while slightly fewer, 42 percent, disagree.

Opponents, once firmly in the majority, now hold a minority view. Their ranks are down 23 points since a 1994 poll and 15 points since 1998.

There has been renewed debate on this issue since talk show host Rosie O'Donnell spoke out last month against a 1977 Florida law that prohibits adoption by homosexuals.
=====================

[jakee 1,489]

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You asked if I knew any gays: I supervised nearly 100 gay men. Most were good workers and made the firm I worked for a lot of money, but never did I hear anything regarding values, family, raising kids. It was mostly about poppers, dancing, getting layed and docs they might see for there their medical problems. Many of these guys died with aids.

100 gay men? Unless you were managing a gay strip club then demographics would suggest you had a workforce of at least 1000 under you. How did you manage to get to know them all so well?


(As an aside, it's amazing how many walks of life you have direct experience with that just happen to be relevant to whatever subject you're discussing at the time. You are a true goldmine of anecdotal evidence.)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Andy9o8 2]

hey that was your post # 12121. cool, eh?

now back to our show.

[Andy9o8 2]

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I supervised nearly 100 gay men.

IOW, you've had 100 gay men under you.

I knew you doth protest too much.

[Remster 30]

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I supervised nearly 100 gay men.

IOW, you've had 100 gay men under you.

I knew you doth protest too much.

Too easy. You used to go after deeper targets.

Remster

[OHCHUTE 0]

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You asked if I knew any gays: I supervised nearly 100 gay men. Most were good workers and made the firm I worked for a lot of money, but never did I hear anything regarding values, family, raising kids. It was mostly about poppers, dancing, getting layed and docs they might see for there their medical problems. Many of these guys died with aids.

100 gay men? Unless you were managing a gay strip club then demographics would suggest you had a workforce of at least 1000 under you. How did you manage to get to know them all so well?


(As an aside, it's amazing how many walks of life you have direct experience with that just happen to be relevant to whatever subject you're discussing at the time. You are a true goldmine of anecdotal evidence.)

Now there's a good lot of guys that could raise kids, gay male strippers.

I had 10 gays in one store. One day the store manger called me and told me to get down there as two of the guys were fist fighting in the salon. There were hair curlers all over the place and blood.
The one guy was my top producer. I ended up sending one of the them to another shop. Again.... none that I knew then ever expressed any desire for family. My cousin who died of aids never did either and of course he probably wouldn't have made a good dad lying in bed with AIDS after what was reported to me by my sister who visited him in San Fran that just about everyone did him.

Now all of a sudden the gay world wants to act like, well, the heterosexual world... conservative with family values, enough so to someday raise kids. Go ahead... get homosexuals in office and you'll have your way.

[billvon 2,991]

>I had 10 gays in one store. One day the store manger called me and told me to get
>down there as two of the guys were fist fighting in the salon. There were hair curlers
>all over the place and blood.

There ya go. They probably all had AIDS, too, right? And all wore feather boas and high heels. I saw that in a movie once.

[OHCHUTE 0]

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>I had 10 gays in one store. One day the store manger called me and told me to get
>down there as two of the guys were fist fighting in the salon. There were hair curlers
>all over the place and blood.

There ya go. They probably all had AIDS, too, right? And all wore feather boas and high heels. I saw that in a movie once.

No movie bro. 1200 beauty shops world wide including Harrods in London. In all in the best department stores in the country. I hired lots of gay men. And fired many too. Especially when they didn't show up. But many skipped around anyway as they were so unstable when it came to employment. They'd meet a guy and off they'd go... here and there.

[mistercwood 287]

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You asked if I knew any gays: I supervised nearly 100 gay men. Most were good workers and made the firm I worked for a lot of money, but never did I hear anything regarding values, family, raising kids. It was mostly about poppers, dancing, getting layed and docs they might see for there their medical problems. Many of these guys died with aids.

100 gay men? Unless you were managing a gay strip club then demographics would suggest you had a workforce of at least 1000 under you. How did you manage to get to know them all so well?


(As an aside, it's amazing how many walks of life you have direct experience with that just happen to be relevant to whatever subject you're discussing at the time. You are a true goldmine of anecdotal evidence.)

Now there's a good lot of guys that could raise kids, gay male strippers.

I had 10 gays in one store. One day the store manger called me and told me to get down there as two of the guys were fist fighting in the salon. There were hair curlers all over the place and blood.
The one guy was my top producer. I ended up sending one of the them to another shop. Again.... none that I knew then ever expressed any desire for family. My cousin who died of aids never did either and of course he probably wouldn't have made a good dad lying in bed with AIDS after what was reported to me by my sister who visited him in San Fran that just about everyone did him.

Now all of a sudden the gay world wants to act like, well, the heterosexual world... conservative with family values, enough so to someday raise kids. Go ahead... get homosexuals in office and you'll have your way.

What era are we talking about here? The constant reference to people dying from AIDS etc... sounds like the 80's to me, prior to retro-virals where you died pretty damn quick. I was in primary school then. I'm in my 30s now. Things change, man... this is not "all of a sudden".

Incidentally, you mention the main focus on drugs, dancing, and getting laid amongst your former employees - sounds like damn near every early 20s kid I know, gay/straight/whatever...

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[billvon 2,991]

> I hired lots of gay men. And fired many too. Especially when they didn't show up.
>But many skipped around anyway as they were so unstable when it came to
>employment. They'd meet a guy and off they'd go... here and there.

Yep, your story just keeps getting better. And lo and behold, it always seems to prove your point.

Eagerly awaiting the next installment.

[OHCHUTE 0]

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> I hired lots of gay men. And fired many too. Especially when they didn't show up.
>But many skipped around anyway as they were so unstable when it came to
>employment. They'd meet a guy and off they'd go... here and there.

Yep, your story just keeps getting better. And lo and behold, it always seems to prove your point.

Eagerly awaiting the next installment.

I could write a book. Here's Danny, one of the funniest guys. He worked out of Phil and NYC he was on our styles directors team that engineered many new hair fashions that were marketing thought out the business including the one for Dorthy Hammil the Olympic skater cut by Jean Louis David. Danny is since deseased and only came by this video researching past people I've known. Not sure the reason he died. I probably have more experience dealing with gays than anyone one the planet, at least in a work environment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHbZSGn8Sv0

OK see you.