Andy9o8 2 #1 April 12, 2013 http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/12/us/virginia-community-college-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 2 women shot at Virginia community college; suspect detained By Devon Sayers and Greg Botelho, CNN updated 4:19 PM EDT, Fri April 12, 2013 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #2 April 12, 2013 Hopefully the women who were shot pull through. Other than that, there is so little information in the story it's hard to comment on it. I understand this can come off as dismissive of events like this, and that that can seem cold, but where does a story like this fit in the gun debate? Do people collect this like a playing card in their "college campus multiple-shooting" deck and then point to the stack and make hand gestures to indicate incredulity at its size when they want to make an argument for imposing laws "x", "y", and "z"? Is the idea to just toss so many shootings at people through the news that they eventually forget what the proposed gun control measures are, and snap in line with the "something/anything must be done" crowd? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #3 April 12, 2013 Quote...with the "something/anything must be done" crowd? As opposed to the, "Fuck it. Just let people die" crowd? Even the "good man with a gun" is saying something must be done.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #4 April 12, 2013 QuoteQuote...with the "something/anything must be done" crowd? As opposed to the, "Fuck it. Just let people die" crowd? I don't recommend people snap in line with any crowd. I recommend that if people want to post a story of every shooting that makes the news, they should read the story carefully, and consider their view of the issue and any solutions they believe in critically when discussing the story. Sandy Hook may have changed how a lot of people feel about guns, but I think it's also negatively impacted the ability of people on both extremes of the debate to read a news story beyond the words "...shooting... ......" Not sure if you noticed, btw, but the people shot in this incident aren't dead. I haven't heard updates on their conditions. I guess one is in okay shape and the other they are not talking about too much, which isn't a good sign. As for the shooter, apparently he posted on /b/ that he was going to do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #5 April 13, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuote2 women shot at Virginia community college; suspect detained By Devon Sayers and Greg Botelho, CNN ...with the "something/anything must be done" crowd? As opposed to the, "Fuck it. Just let people die" crowd? Even the "good man with a gun" is saying something must be done. OK, so two people were injured by a third with a firearm. Excuse me but so fucking what? Should I care more that it was at a school? I don't. Should I care more that the weapon was I firearm? I don't. It's as terrible as any other assault with a deadly weapon. I'm sorry for them women that were attacked and injured. But that happens every day all over the world. Why get your panties in a wad over this one crime? All I see is a biased source trying to make more in advertising by sensationalizing a story to generate hits. Whoop-di-friggin-doo. I'm sure plenty are just salivating at the thought that he was a felon, using a black rifle, with a history of mental illness. If not, what exactly are you suggesting be done? Face it: with liberty and freedom comes the possibility that someone may abuse it to do something terrible. With other mediums you are comfortable criminalizing only the abuse, the harm to others. You don't want censorship or prior restraint to press or speech do you? No, you give them the freedom and then punish them if they've done wrong. You don't want to ban computers, or force every user to register with the govt before accessing the internet, do you? No, you support free access and use, until something is hacked or a virus is set loose. You don't even support voter ID laws, but you want a gargantuan bureaucracy between a citizen and the exercise of their second amendment rights. Why? All the harms that can be done with firearms are already against the law. Why do you want to so tightly monitor and control possession, the merely possibility that something horrible MIGHT be done some time in the future? What is so different on this one topic?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #6 April 13, 2013 Just in case people are not familiar with the geography, Christiansburg and New River Community College are basically right next door to Blacksburg and Virginia Tech. The area has seen a rash of these incidents, not just the Cho incident."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #7 April 13, 2013 My god, you're right this IS the only school shooting that has ever taken place! Way too few people to care about too. Fuck it. Let 'em die.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #8 April 13, 2013 QuoteMy god, you're right this IS the only school shooting that has ever taken place! Way too few people to care about too. Fuck it. Let 'em die. You're demonstrating my point... Virginia Tech... Sandyhook... University of Central Florida... Christiansburg... They're all just "school shootings" at this point. What's the suggestion? "Universal background checks and a ban on assault weapons and high capacity magazines." Do the details matter? What if- "Oh so I see you just want to let students just die then, fuck them, is that it?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #9 April 13, 2013 Good impression. You left out the vitriol, but well done otherwise. Don't forget: Va Tech was done with just two pistols. Obviously you need to ban semiauto handguns along with scary looking rifles. Or just register them all, because registration has never led to confiscation, except in NY, CA, MA, and pretty much anywhere else it's been enacted...witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #10 April 13, 2013 QuoteMy god, you're right this IS the only school shooting that has ever taken place! Way too few people to care about too. Fuck it. Let 'em die. Are you racist? Do you hate poor people? Why do school shootings matter to you, but the vast majority of shooting deaths, those that aren't white kids in school or privileged ones at university, don't matter to you? (Boy, progressive tactics are impressive; devoid of merit or logic, and leave you feeling a bit unclean, but they sure make a lot of sensational noise and influence the weak minded)witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #11 April 13, 2013 >registration has never led to confiscation,except in NY,CA,MA,and pretty much anywhere else it's been enacted...... Do not forget the list of registered guns and gun owners that the nazi's used to confiscate guns not only from german citizens,but the citizens of the countries they invaded, in their attempt to crush any opposition in their quest of world domination. I'm pretty sure Hitler was a socialist,hmmmmm....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistercwood 287 #12 April 13, 2013 Yes. Absolutely. You are totally about to be living under the modern equivalent of the fascist Nazi regime. That's exactly what this is about. No one could possibly want less people to die so easily. No sir. Not wanting people to die so much is only ever a smokescreen for world domination.You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #13 April 13, 2013 Quote Yes. Absolutely. You are totally about to be living under the modern equivalent of the fascist Nazi regime. That's exactly what this is about. No one could possibly want less people to die so easily. No sir. Not wanting people to die so much is only ever a smokescreen for world domination. I don't feel that way about your position. I consider that the every day gun control advocate do have good intentions. The comments was that the actions those advocates are pushing have consequences that the advocates either haven't thought through, or are actively ignoring just to get 'something' done. Pointing out possible consequences is not a character attack, and responding to it in an emotional manner doesn't help bring clarity to each other. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #14 April 13, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote2 women shot at Virginia community college; suspect detained By Devon Sayers and Greg Botelho, CNN ...with the "something/anything must be done" crowd? As opposed to the, "Fuck it. Just let people die" crowd? Even the "good man with a gun" is saying something must be done. OK, so two people were injured by a third with a firearm. Excuse me but so fucking what? Yep, no problem, just a little collateral damage so you folks can have easy access to your toys.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #15 April 13, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuote...with the "something/anything must be done" crowd? As opposed to the, "Fuck it. Just let people die" crowd? I don't recommend people snap in line with any crowd. I recommend that if people want to post a story of every shooting that makes the news There would be nothing else posted if that were the case, with 9000+ gun murders every year in the USA, each of which makes the news somewhere.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #16 April 13, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote...with the "something/anything must be done" crowd? As opposed to the, "Fuck it. Just let people die" crowd? I don't recommend people snap in line with any crowd. I recommend that if people want to post a story of every shooting that makes the news There would be nothing else posted if that were the case, with 9000+ gun murders every year in the USA, each of which makes the news somewhere. "I'm getting better!" "No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment." I feel compelled to, again, point out that nobody was murdered in this story. I consider the individual threads an attempt to portray as many shootings as possible in a personal light. It's kinda making the argument that, "one shooting is a tradgedy, and however many thousand shootings is not just a statistic, but in fact however many thousand tradgeies." So, insofar as this thread is trying to give pause in consideration of the victims here, I think it's worth remembering that they are still alive. (at least to the best of my knowledge, as of this writing.) That said, the rest of my post also applies to statistical analysis of the (yes, large number of) shootings across the country each year. I posted how I would go about reviewing the details of a shooting in one of Andy's other threads. I would hope any study conducted would examine incidents in this manner, and not simply lump incidents together based on a keyword search. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #17 April 13, 2013 QuoteQuoteOK, so two people were injured by a third with a firearm. Excuse me but so fucking what? Yep, no problem, just a little collateral damage so you folks can have easy access to your toys. Wow. You are so full of it. Way to snip a post and ignore where I addressed your concerns and asked a relevant question. Yes, it's terrible. But what would you do to prevent it? Just how much freedom would you give up? Just how much power would you you give authorities over your life to prevent all AWDW offenses? Here's the rest of the post you hacked up. Feel free to read the rest and respond to content, rather than go for sensational quotes. (I thought you taught physics, not journalism) QuoteOK, so two people were injured by a third with a firearm. Excuse me but so fucking what? Should I care more that it was at a school? I don't. Should I care more that the weapon was I firearm? I don't. It's as terrible as any other assault with a deadly weapon. I'm sorry for them women that were attacked and injured. But that happens every day all over the world. Why get your panties in a wad over this one crime? All I see is a biased source trying to make more in advertising by sensationalizing a story to generate hits. Whoop-di-friggin-doo. I'm sure plenty are just salivating at the thought that he was a felon, using a black rifle, with a history of mental illness. If not, what exactly are you suggesting be done? Face it: with liberty and freedom comes the possibility that someone may abuse it to do something terrible. With other mediums you are comfortable criminalizing only the abuse, the harm to others. You don't want censorship or prior restraint to press or speech do you? No, you give them the freedom and then punish them if they've done wrong. You don't want to ban computers, or force every user to register with the govt before accessing the internet, do you? No, you support free access and use, until something is hacked or a virus is set loose. You don't even support voter ID laws, but you want a gargantuan bureaucracy between a citizen and the exercise of their second amendment rights. Why? All the harms that can be done with firearms are already against the law. Why do you want to so tightly monitor and control possession, the merely possibility that something horrible MIGHT be done some time in the future? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #18 April 13, 2013 I did not say we were living under the modern equivalent of a fascist nazi regime,but this doesn't mean that some tyranical force from without,or from within, couldn't come to be. The nazi's didn't just use gun registration to confiscate the guns of german citizens(starting with the jews by the way),the nazis used the gun registrations of the countries they invaded as a road map to confiscate those guns,and to also eliminate any people who might oppose their agenda(free thinking gun owners) by rounding up those they felt to be a threat of resistance and shooting them. These are historical facts,and it is said that history repeats itself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #19 April 13, 2013 >9000+ gun murders..... Divide 9000 by three hundred million(the number is closer to 325 million people in the US) just to make it easy, and you get something like 0.000003% of the population murdered with guns. Not letting the knee jerk emotional response get the best of reason,this is a very small number. Over 100,000 people die from prescription drug problems each year. Now add in the people who die from outright prescription drug abuse,or the people who are killed by others under the influence of drugs while operating equipment,or driving,ect.... It is illegal by the way to use any substance that may impair your senses while operating any equipment,yet it still occurs,hmmmmm....... Doesn't sound like the laws are 100% effective at stopping shit. But considering how many guns there are,and how many people there are,and how many batshit crazy people there are,guns are not used to kill as many people in the US as any realistic person would think. Lets just look at the children,because if we can just save one child it is worth it,and there are six children who are killed by child abuse in the US everyday or 2190 of them who die of abuse each year on average,mostly at the hands of a parent. The average number of children who die from all gunshots on average in the US is 791,and many of those are accidental self inflicted gunshots. It is said that at 20 weeks a human fetus can survive outside the womb,yet there are almost 11,000 babies,who are completely helpless,that are killed in late term abortions (after 20 weeks) each year in the US. Hmmmmm........ If we could save just one life.One of those aborted children could have been a great scientist or leader. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistercwood 287 #20 April 13, 2013 Quote Quote Yes. Absolutely. You are totally about to be living under the modern equivalent of the fascist Nazi regime. That's exactly what this is about. No one could possibly want less people to die so easily. No sir. Not wanting people to die so much is only ever a smokescreen for world domination. I don't feel that way about your position. I consider that the every day gun control advocate do have good intentions. The comments was that the actions those advocates are pushing have consequences that the advocates either haven't thought through, or are actively ignoring just to get 'something' done. Pointing out possible consequences is not a character attack, and responding to it in an emotional manner doesn't help bring clarity to each other. Sorry, my bad I guess. Once someone makes the leap that gun control = Nazi/socialist/Hitler, I stop taking them seriously. I agree that there are a whole lot of legislators whose hearts are in the right places with regard to the issue, but who haven't done the slightest bit of research about what would be most effective. Hell I know more about firearms than some of them, so your point about some of them just 'wanting to get something done' is sadly not moot. ETA: I do get frustrated however, with those on the other side of the aisle who look at any proposed measure and immediately label it a non starter since it won't fix 100% of the problem. Also, my more cynical mind wonders if advocates are deliberately going for much more over-reaching solutions knowing that they're going to get the shit hacked out of them anyway to get through congress. If they put out something practical and balanced at the outset, what the hell's going to be left of it by the time it makes it into law? I would respectfully disagree that the previous poster was 'pointing out possible consequences', he was trotting out a well worn line that misses the big picture. If your government really was looking to transition to a dictatorship, I'd be less concerned about the threat of confiscation and much, much more concerned about the ramping up of the domestic drone program. That shit is potentially terrifying... You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #21 April 14, 2013 Quote>9000+ gun murders..... Divide 9000 by three hundred million(the number is closer to 325 million people in the US) just to make it easy, and you get something like 0.000003% of the population murdered with guns.. It's about 10x the RATE at which people are murdered with guns in any other western industrial nation. 15x Australia's RATE, for example. Nothing to worry about. Carry on. PS I hope your gun skills are better than your math skills, which suck big time.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #22 April 14, 2013 There are somewhere around 2 billion children in the world. Approximately 15 million of them die of hunger each year. That's 0.75%. There are approximately 73 million children in the US. Approximately 115 of them are killed by guns each year. That's 0.000158%. If this is about "saving the children", your efforts are misdirected. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #23 April 14, 2013 >your math skills....... looks like an extra zero ended up after that decimal point. The cat likes to help me out when I'm on the laptop by sitting on my lap,but I still take full responsibility for not checking my work. So I devided 9,000 by 325,000,000 and got 0.000027692307692%. I am much,much better with guns though, and the cat is not allowed around those,even though she would most likely love trying to help me field strip and clean the guns and mags. As far as gun violence here compared to australia and other industrialized nations,you have to look at the fact that australia and other industrialized nations do not share a border with mexico,and they do not have as big of a gang problem as the US has. The US has white gangs,black gangs,mexican gangs,asian gangs,gangs from other countries,ect..... The US has more non gun violence than alot of countries as well,because we have alot of gangs here,it's not rocket science. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #24 April 14, 2013 Quote >your math skills....... looks like an extra zero ended up after that decimal point. The cat likes to help me out when I'm on the laptop by sitting on my lap,but I still take full responsibility for not checking my work. I am much,much better with guns though, and the cat is not allowed around those. Those cats, always getting their pets into trouble.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #25 April 14, 2013 QuoteThere are somewhere around 2 billion children in the world. Approximately 15 million of them die of hunger each year. That's 0.75%. There are approximately 73 million children in the US. Approximately 115 of them are killed by guns each year. That's 0.000158%. If this is about "saving the children", your efforts are misdirected. Blues, Dave Where did I say that it is just about children? Your misdirection is misdirected.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
