SC - Useful Debate, or Just Lots and Lots of Yelling?

[MikeJD 0]

I seldom browse, and virtually never post, in this forum.

As an 'outsider' it seems to me that SC exists mainly for people to let off steam, endlessly recycling a handful of themes across twenty thousand threads, with everybody shouting and nobody listening except for perceived flaws in their opponents' arguments - and certainly not with a view to reconsidering their own. It seems to me that there's plenty of heat, but precious little 'debate' - at least as I understand it.

Obviously a good old row can be diverting and cathartic in itself, but I'm curious to know - can anyone cite an example of where they feel they've made a difference in here - or (and this would have more credibility ) where they themselves have been turned around on any given topic?

[wmw999 2,447]

There've been threads on this in the past (of course). Some will admit to using information in here (as opposed to talking points) to help form, firm, or moderate opinions, and there are cases where opinions have been changed.

Personally, of course, I think those folks are more intellectually honest . It happens, but there's a cadre of folks on both sides who are here just to vent or forward someone else's opinion.

It helps to be a fast reader

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[FreeFallFiend 0]

Honestly I am embarrassed by most of the things I read in the SC. When I read things people post here I am embarrassed to be associated with skydiving, being an american, even a human being. Even when one occasionally stumbles over a nonbaiting thread that would otherwise have a decent chance of serious intellectual discussion/debate the constant deaf (sorry for the expression Billy) agenda driving and most of the time ignorant bleating of a few ruin all chances for civility.

Fiend

I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark. - Thomas Hobbes.

[BikerBabe 0]

Compared to the other political forum I frequent (also an adjunct to a forum for a different hobby), the posts and threads in here, in general, are inane, trite, and so far below the standards of that other forum that I find it hard to believe the education levels of many of the people who post here.

It is a bit disheartening to think that poker players, as a niche group, are more educated, articulate, open-minded, and fair than skydivers. We here have many diverse occupations, education levels, socio-economic statuses, and opinions. They do as well, but seem much more willing to engage in true debate with substance than we are here.

I am going to have to vote for the latter. I rarely post anymore, mainly because my posts, which I put effort and thought into, seem to either go unread or have one line be taken out of context. Both of which are rude and poor form for "debate".

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[RonD1120 62]

MikeJD

I seldom browse, and virtually never post, in this forum.

As an 'outsider' it seems to me that SC exists mainly for people to let off steam, endlessly recycling a handful of themes across twenty thousand threads, with everybody shouting and nobody listening except for perceived flaws in their opponents' arguments - and certainly not with a view to reconsidering their own. It seems to me that there's plenty of heat, but precious little 'debate' - at least as I understand it.

Obviously a good old row can be diverting and cathartic in itself, but I'm curious to know - can anyone cite an example of where they feel they've made a difference in here - or (and this would have more credibility ) where they themselves have been turned around on any given topic?

No. I came here in 2009 with the purpose of posting positive Christian messages. I used to write a Chaplain's Corner for a military veterans organization and sought to duplicate the effort. It did not take long to realize this is an encounter group. So, being a professional counselor I decided to play it for what it was worth.

I've learned to express myself better and to manage my anger in a more productive way. Therefore, I've gained something.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[MikeJD 0]

wmw999

There've been threads on this in the past (of course).

Thanks, Wendy. I thought there probably would have been, but I couldn't think what search terms might turn them up.

One benefit of SC that I forgot, but which (joking aside) is an important one - it keeps all this stuff out of The Bonfire.

[airdvr 210]

FreeFallFiend

I am embarrassed to be associated with skydiving, being an american, even a human being.

The very definition of a liberal. Thanks.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Kennedy 0]

Sure, there are intractable asshole on both sides, and plenty of "yerp herp derp" screaming past one another. There are also a bunch if good folks sharing reasonable and rational poits of view. There are also discussions of topics that might not come up in your daily life otherwise. It's kind of a drudge from people you know.

For a good example of each point above, look at the mass shooting New Orleans mothers day thread. There is news. Some discussion. Some yerp herp derping. Then valuable information comes out.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[billvon 2,991]

>The very definition of a liberal.

There ya go.

[FreeFallFiend 0]

airdvr

***
I am embarrassed to be associated with skydiving, being an american, even a human being.

The very definition of a liberal. Thanks.

Thank you for demonstrating my point. Not only did you take a single line out of context but you even chopped my sentence in half to change the meaning. My FULL sentence was:

FreeFallFiend

When I read things people post here I am embarrassed to be associated with skydiving, being an american, even a human being.

Shame on me for falling victim to the very type of behavior I was complaining about. Instead of discussing/debating my post you chose to instead take something out of context and then label my political views in one very broad stroke. (Which was incorrect since I am far closer to being right than left by the way.)

Of course I did see your winky face so maybe it' safe to assume you ere joking or even being ironic. Some people however use those to tell people how they really feel but then leave a backdoor at the same time.

Fiend

I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark. - Thomas Hobbes.

[base283 0]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4484857;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

Child abuse thread,
Darius11 was surprised that he was the only one promoting asswhooping. SC did its duty and paid for itself in a social way.
take care,
space

[livendive 8]

It's mostly nonsense. People pausing to consider the merits of a well-argued dissenting opinion is the exception rather than the rule.

Edit to add: I'll admit I've found one constant point of disagreement pretty interesting. When Falxori and Darius argue about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Speaker's Corner gives me a perspective that I have no access to in the physical world.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[rushmc 23]

MikeJD

***There've been threads on this in the past (of course).

Thanks, Wendy. I thought there probably would have been, but I couldn't think what search terms might turn them up.

One benefit of SC that I forgot, but which (joking aside) is an important one - it keeps all this stuff out of The Bonfire.
I avoid the Bonfire (for the most part) because I cant stand the ass hole attitude of many that post there

At least here, people have to think (a bit)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[BIGUN 1,312]

About the last truly knowledgeable, well-versed, articulate debater on here was nerdgirl. She gave even the best great pause. But, she grew weary of trying to bring an intellectual stratosphere to an exit altitude discussion.

Admittedly, a few years ago, Billvon gave me insight to do more research into global warming. I don't know that I changed my stance much, but did peel back more than the 30 second No, yes, left, right, punchout discussions.

I don't post on here as much as I used to just because the topics are neither new, of any depth or thought provoking. They just cause the reactance theory of staying on one's side of the tennis net waiting for the next volley to slam back and forth.. and back.. and...

ETA: In fact, it's gotten to be such a lazy debate forum that it's not unusual to have one post a hyperlink to an article and not even have an opening discuss as to its content. We've all gotten lazy and there's some on here that I truly do respect in their positions... meaning those that are opposed to mine. But, after about the 300th gun, religion, left vs. right thread... Been there; done that.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[airdvr 210]

Ease up there big fella. If you're going to come in here ya better be ready to take some shit and give it back. No one's requiring you to be here. That being said I enjoy the SC. It has given me pause for thought in several areas like capital punishment, abortion, and getting a refund on used items from WalMart.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[catfishhunter 2]

Its defiantly helped me identify those I wouldn't cross the street to piss on if they were on fire.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[billvon 2,991]

>Its defiantly helped me identify those I wouldn't cross the street to piss on if they were on fire.

I'd buy anyone here a beer. People get all worked up on line and that generally has nothing to do with their behavior in the real world. (With a very few exceptions.)

[Darius11 12]

It’s a lot of shit, and yelling. There are a few people who are good at debating and actually have something to contribute. I pay attention to them more.

Personally I frequent another form and the discussion there are much more level headed and open minded then many of the views you get here. If you spend enough time here you notice you are arguing way to the left or right of your own view point simply because of how far left or right the people you are debating have taken it. I am guilty of that myself.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[rehmwa 2]

Darius11

If you spend enough time here you notice you are arguing way to the left or right of your own view point simply because of how far left or right the people you are debating have taken it.

that's a very good observation, the desire to attempt to balance some of the junk here is very strong - and that is NOT a stable system by any means

and if you do try to stay a bit more moderate, it doesn't matter, someone will strawman a harmless comment as extreme and set the swing going again

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Channman 2]

billvon

>Its defiantly helped me identify those I wouldn't cross the street to piss on if they were on fire.

I'd buy anyone here a beer. People get all worked up on line and that generally has nothing to do with their behavior in the real world. (With a very few exceptions.)

Hey man, you're the best!!

Someone once asked me what type of ladies man was I? A Breast Man, Legs Man, or an Ass Man...well I figure I'm and Ass Man, because everyone is always telling me..."Your and Ass, Man...Your an ASS"

So I guess SC has help me to notice on occassion when I'm being an ASS...and on those days I don't see it, your always there to point it OUT.

[wmw999 2,447]

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[popsjumper 2]

Well, duuuuuuh....

"A Soap Box in Cyber Space. This is the place to discuss politics, guns, religion and any other topic you feel the need to address from your soap box. Debates may get heated in here but the forum rules apply as everywhere else. "

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

...the posts and threads in here, in general, are inane, trite, and so far below the standards of that other forum that I find it hard to believe the education levels of many of the people who post here.

You're expectitions are waaaaaaaay two high.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

I avoid the Bonfire (for the most part) because I cant stand the ass hole attitude of many that post there

At least here, people have to think (a bit)

Ah, poo. SC makes it easier to be an asshole...no thinking required.
Think of all the straight-line set-ups you are being fed.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

catfishhunter

Its defiantly helped me identify those I wouldn't cross the street to piss on if they were on fire.

I'm sorry to hear that, myself.
The only ones I wouldn't sit down over a beer with are those who left their emotional development back in jr. high school....the ones who threaten violence...the ones incapable of resolving differences by anything other than violence.

Now...if only I drank beer.....

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239