Judge rules against 'America's toughest sheriff' in racial profiling lawsuit

[jgoose71 0]

Darius11

Once we lose the ability to follow the laws that we set and we go against our own principles we lose period. We go from a country that is just to a country that is not. I find that thought horrifying.

So are you saying that we should start enforcing the immigration laws that are on the books?

Interesting notion....

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Andy9o8 2]

jgoose71

***
Once we lose the ability to follow the laws that we set and we go against our own principles we lose period. We go from a country that is just to a country that is not. I find that thought horrifying.

So are you saying that we should start enforcing the immigration laws that are on the books?

Interesting notion....

Part of the benefit of living in a democratic country governed by the people, according to the rule of law, is that when government abuses its power by trampling on the nation's own laws and principles in the ostensible name of "law & order" or "enforcing the laws" - whether it's done by the police, or by the taxing authorities (like the IRS), etc. - The People get to call the government out on it.

Thugs like Arpaio don't do what they do to promote the law. The law is just the tool they get to use, abuse and hide behind in order to be self-aggrandizing bullies. They do it to promote themselves, precisely because they are thugs. Thugs like Sheriff Joe Arpaio, Sheriff Bull Connor, Mayor Richard Daley (Senior), Mayor Frank Rizzo, Sen. Joseph McCarthy - they're all cut out of the same cloth.

There's your interesting notion.

[normiss 801]

I would have to disagree.
I had to prove citizenship to renew my license last time.
Sort of aggravated over it to be honest.
I have had a valid FL DL since I was 15.
NOW I finally have to prove who I am???

GatherGoGet website

A lot of folks were very unhappy when this started. I don't remember any law suits over it.

ETA the checklist

So how is proving citizenship prior to getting the license any different?

[Andy9o8 2]

You're making a separate point. All I'm saying is that most average Americans don't carry proof of their US citizenship around with them in their wallets or purses which can be produced at an instant's notice if stopped by a cop. Yeah, if I was applying for something and had to submit proof of my US citizenship as part of the paperwork package, I could do so. But, for example, at a traffic stop? Of course not, at least not beyond my driver's license (which wouldn't be sufficient anyway).

[normiss 801]

My point was that my driver's license IS proof of citizenship.

[jclalor 12]

Quote

My point is I have no problem with them pulling people over for "looking Mexican", if they are looking for Mexicans.

When are they not looking for Mexicans in Arizona?

You seriously think that 50% of the population of Arizona should be detained by the police, at any time, for simply having brown skin? A first, second or third generation American should put up with this?

Yet you think tea baggers being targeted by the IRS is surely a sign of the coming apocalypse.

[Andy9o8 2]

normiss

My point was that my driver's license IS proof of citizenship.

Not necessarily. I'm pretty sure that in most, probably all, US states, a legal resident alien (a/k/a holder of a "green card") may obtain a driver's license. Some states allow it for valid holders of certain types of visas, but less than "green card" status. So, conceivably, a legitimate visa-holder could obtain a driver's license, and then over-stay his visa, or have it expire due to loss of, say, employment status or whatever. At that point, if he remains in the US, he's illegal, yet he still possesses an active drivers license.

[normiss 801]

Fine.
Don't read the requirements.


Have a good weekend.

[Andy9o8 2]

normiss

Don't read the requirement

I fuckin' did !!

[CanuckInUSA 0]

When I lived in CO, I had a valid CO driver's license and I was only ever considered a "temporary resident of the USA". Driver's licenses are NOT proof of citizenship.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[ryoder 1,590]

Andy9o8

It reminds me of the routine in the film Born in East LA, where LA-born, Mexican-looking, English-only speaking, Cheech Marin is arrested as an illegal immigrant, and is deported "back" to Mexico because he couldn't prove he was a US citizen with just the papers in his wallet. (Just as I cannot, or you cannot.) Pretty funny.

Haven't seen the film, but the *video* is good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPafSauUABY

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Yep, you are definitely "that guy" just as predicted. Everyone who disagrees with your views on race must be a racist.

[dmcoco84 5]

Doesn't your first statement prove your second incorrect?

If you are a US citizen, then a drivers license, and providing an officer in a traffic stop with a SSN is totally sufficient to confirm citizenship.

If you are anything BUT a US citizen ...especially given all the current problems and "political issues" surrounding them... you should be able to prove you are legally in the country. In fact, it is Federal Law.

Its as simple as that. Even without your DL, if you have a DL but not on you... Name, DOB, SSN and Address... and you shouldn't have a problem.

I don't get the controversy with this issue.

I do not see how a US citizen, could have a difficult time proving citizenship.




P.S... White people are crossing the border too.

Quote

He tweeted: “CBP just apprehended 9 Romanians crossing the border about 3 miles. This is the USA-Mexico border.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/3/rep-jason-chaffetz-border-no-fence-just-walkway-an/#ixzz2URSfxXRJ

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/02/heres-what-gop-rep-jason-chaffetz-found-at-the-u-s-mexico-border-in-arizona/

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

Doesn't your first statement prove your second incorrect?

How so?

Now I was legally allowed to be in the USA as a temporary NAFTA worker, so this is why the state of CO issued me one of their driver's licenses. In that regard, possession of a valid driver's licenses meant I was not in the country illegally. If that is what you are getting at, then there is no argument. But I was just stating that I was not, am not, a US citizen and yet I still possessed a valid driver's license when I lived in CO.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[kallend 2,027]

normiss

Fine.
Don't read the requirements.


Have a good weekend.

Out of curiosity I read the FL requirements.

A FL resident can get a FL drivers license on proof of citizenship OR proof of being a legal immigrant with a valid visa.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wmw999 2,447]

New Mexico is among the states that allows illegal immigrants to get driver's licenses. So brown people would still have to carry additional papers.

How many of you carry your passport all the time? How many of you even have a passport?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[normiss 801]

I'm told there is a visible designation on the license that alerts whomever is checking the ID of that fact. Which thereby makes the license a proof of citizenship!
Maybe not.
It's just odd to me that I prove MY citizenship to obtain the license in the first place.....yet they can't ask us to prove citizenship after the fact?
That's odd.

[DanG 1]

Quote

If you are a US citizen, then a drivers license, and providing an officer in a traffic stop with a SSN is totally sufficient to confirm citizenship.

SSNs are, by law, not to be used as a national ID. You, of all people, Mr. Original Intent, should know that.

- Dan G

[dmcoco84 5]

DanG

Quote

If you are a US citizen, then a drivers license, and providing an officer in a traffic stop with a SSN is totally sufficient to confirm citizenship.

SSNs are, by law, not to be used as a national ID. You, of all people, Mr. Original Intent, should know that.

That's not what I said, "Mr. Reading is Fundamental."


Lets says I were out in AZ BASE jumping.

Lets say I got lost, happened to drop my rig and all my gear (with my DL and Keys) off the side of a cliff, and it lands where there is no way I can get to it.

I happen to make it to a road... where a cop sees me.

I'm also near the border... (and hey, say I'm covered in dirt so I look like a brown person - )

So, being a US citizen... you are telling me, that a cop, with my full name, DOB, SSN, and address could not find me in his computer and confirm I am who I say I am?

[dmcoco84 5]

Quote

OR proof of being a legal immigrant with a valid visa

And is it not safe to assume, that the expiration date of the DL, would be matched to the expiration of the visa?

If not... pretty stupid to make it longer than you are even allowed to be here.

[kallend 2,027]

jgoose71

***
Once we lose the ability to follow the laws that we set and we go against our own principles we lose period. We go from a country that is just to a country that is not. I find that thought horrifying.

So are you saying that we should start enforcing the immigration laws that are on the books?

Interesting notion....

The US Constitution is, of course, "on the books" so that needs to be followed too.

Even by Arizona sheriffs.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,027]

dmcoco84

Quote

OR proof of being a legal immigrant with a valid visa

And is it not safe to assume, that the expiration date of the DL, would be matched to the expiration of the visa?

If not... pretty stupid to make it longer than you are even allowed to be here.

Yep.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[metalslug 36]

Quote

Also reminds me of the Passbook system formerly used by South Africa to enforce its apartheid laws. Hm, not so funny.

Well, since you've opened the door.....
Would it surprise you to know that South African law enforcement still performs certain types of racial profiling targeting black people, even under a 'black' administration ?

The President, the Minister of Safety & Security, the Commissioner of Police, most policemen, and most of the nation's citizens are black.
However, due to the remaining economic divides, the majority of drivers on South African public roads are white.

At every roadblock that I have passed through within the last 5 years, there has been (in my observation) a consistently disproportionate number of black drivers being pulled over and searched or questioned, and done so by black cops.

Despite clear evidence of certain types of crime statistics being linked to racial demographics, it seems all too easy for racial minorities in many countries to claim discrimination, in lieu of a valid argument, on the simple principle that law enforcement authorities consists of a racial demographic that is different from their own.
They don't get to lean on that crutch here anymore.

[dmcoco84 5]

Wow... this guy is awesome.

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/185749/video-driver-refuses-to-prove-u-s-citizenship-at-police-checkpoint/

From my interpretation of the AZ law... these check points are illegal.

If a "brown person" gets stopped for speeding, the law applies.

Is the above video an example of a "saturation patrol"???

[jcd11235 0]

dmcoco84

From my interpretation of the AZ law... these check points are illegal.

Hmmm … it seems odd that federal judges don't consult with you before interpreting law.

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