Is he a whistle blower or traitor?

[ayevee8toryear 0]

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spread it to unauthorized parties for no good reason.

LOL

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He's just a whiny little shit who took advantage of his position to damage his country in order to lash out at the military that he joined voluntarily.

Damaging his country?

LOL

Do you think those that created the lies of WMD's actually give a shit about your country, and those that went along with it?

To think that is mighty foolish...

Patriotism is to question, not to obey!

[jcd11235 0]

Kennedy

disclaimer: the following is opinion, not legal analysis.
Leniency for him should amount to life without the possibility of parole and a permanent cell in the Colorado filing cabinet for fanatics and freaks. Realistically I don't see how they can let him out in less than 25 for any reason whatsoever. I'd never rule out clemency in the form of commutation from a future POTUS, but it's all but unthinkable right now.

I think much of his sentence will depend on how the Arab Spring ultimately turns out. If the historians view the leaks as a catalyst for positive change in the region 20-30 years from now, I don't see him staying in prison.

His actions were absolutely unethical and illegal. It's far too early to know if they were good or bad.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[ayevee8toryear 0]

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His actions were absolutely unethical and illegal.

Did you ever see a declaration of war for Iraq?

Do you think the war in Iraq was justified, legal or ethical?

For crying out loud man!

How stupid can people actually be?

[sfzombie13 324]

wtf?!?!?! you sir, sound like you actually agree with what he did. and all of the things you keep spouting have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on anything in this thread. who the fuck cares why we are in iraq or afghanistan, the fact remains we ARE there, fighting, and the rules of war applies. i say again, he should be FUCKING SHOT for this treason he has committed. that used to be what we did with war criminals.

that being said, i was in a special forces unit when we got called to go to afghanistan in 2002. i was in the same unit when we invaded iraq. i said it was stupid then, and i say it was stupid now. both wars were based on inaccuracies and lies and should never have happened. bush should be tried for war crimes, along with the heads of all major intelligence agencies of the time. and also, for the record, i don't think obama is much better, just the better choice at the time (lesser of two evils and shit). i can say that now, but it was illegal for me to say it then. i didn't like not being able to have an opinion, but i swore an oath, and i kept it.

it's called honor, and from the posts you have been making, it looks to be in short supply in your immediate vicinity. i am personally very glad you have never served in our military. and you are welcome for the ability to spout such ignorant bullshit at any time you want, regardless of the facts behind it.

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Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[ayevee8toryear 0]

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who the fuck cares why we are in iraq or afghanistan, the fact remains we ARE there, fighting, and the rules of war applies.

Both invasions sir.

A declaration of war was not signed for either.

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it's called honor

There is nothing honorable about being a pawn for the control of natural resources.

These wars are unconstitutional and war crimes have been committed.

Don't ignore that.

[sfzombie13 324]

do you know how to read? if not, grab someone and have them read my post to you. then have them type an appropriate response.

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Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[ayevee8toryear 0]

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bush should be tried for war crimes, along with the heads of all major intelligence agencies of the time. and also, for the record, i don't think obama is much better, just the better choice at the time (lesser of two evils and shit). i can say that now, but it was illegal for me to say it then. i didn't like not being able to have an opinion, but i swore an oath, and i kept it.

it's called honor,

There is nothing honorable about upholding a lie...

Especially knowingly and willingly...

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"Evil exists because good men do nothing."

[wmw999 2,447]

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His actions were absolutely unethical and illegal.

And for that he has to pay the penalty of conviction. There was a woman a number of years ago who murdered her son's molester in open court. She went to prison for it, and was released later on appeal, and pleaded guilty.

To me, that's a good definition of vigilantism, and the results thereof. It's hard not to sympathize with her desire to take out the guy who molested her son, but the laws are there nevertheless.

Had Manning very selectively outed stuff it would have been more debatable; letting a whole shitload out for everyone to sift through wasn't very debatable. With a clearance come very clear instructions and additional responsibility.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[davjohns 1]

Given the number of documents, it is highly unlikely he read everything he released. That would make his actions reckless at a minimum. To call him a whistleblower is going in the opposite direction from reckless.

He also ignored all legitimate means of redress for any perceived wrongs. There are actually anonymous ways for people in government and military to report problems. He ignored those.

It seems he was going for attention. He wanted to do something sensational. The reasons are questionable. The results are known. He got his sensation and attention. Hope it was worth it.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[aphid 0]

I don't follow this news story so much... but, wondering out loud...

Is it possible that the soldier just isn't very bright? What I mean to say is, did the potential ramifications or the correct methods of disclosing his concerns possibly not even occur to him?

Maybe he was just a wet-behind-the-ears kid, not unlike many in the early part of their military service.

[normiss 801]

Yet he still swore an oath.



He already admitted fault and plead to most of the charges anyway.
He'll get 20 easy - most likely life.

I say he earned it.

[DanG 1]

By all reports, Manning is very bright. He seems to be emotionally troubled, but being stupid is not one of his 99 problems.

- Dan G

[RonD1120 62]

sfzombie13

do you know how to read? if not, grab someone and have them read my post to you. then have them type an appropriate response.

You are dealing with one of the protected who thinks everything in life is supposed to be fair.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jcd11235 0]

normiss

He already admitted fault and plead to most of the charges anyway.
He'll get 20 easy - most likely life.

Reading more, it appears that the leaks, to which he has plead guilty, carry a maximum sentence of 20 years.

If he's convicted of aiding the enemy he'll face life, but the more I read on the matter, the more I feel such charges are not justified.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[sfzombie13 324]

i do not agree with the military most of the time. even so, there are things i still cannot talk about, because i do no know if they have been declassified. we weren't even allowed to say what country we were in in 2002. i guess we were not supposed to be there. i still won't say, even though it has been 11 years and is well known. that is what it's like when you swear an oath and have enough honor to keep it. or would it be integrity? either way, he was dead wrong. all he had to do was a quick search on the internet for what to do with his info.

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Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[wmw999 2,447]

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i do not agree with the military most of the time. even so, there are things i still cannot talk about, because i do no know if they have been declassified. we weren't even allowed to say what country we were in in 2002. i guess we were not supposed to be there. i still won't say, even though it has been 11 years and is well known. that is what it's like when you swear an oath and have enough honor to keep it. or would it be integrity? either way, he was dead wrong. all he had to do was a quick search on the internet for what to do with his info.

This, folks, is how to do it right as far as I'm concerned.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Rick 67]

sfzombie13

i do not agree with the military most of the time. even so, there are things i still cannot talk about, because i do no know if they have been declassified. we weren't even allowed to say what country we were in in 2002. i guess we were not supposed to be there. i still won't say, even though it has been 11 years and is well known. that is what it's like when you swear an oath and have enough honor to keep it. or would it be integrity? either way, he was dead wrong. all he had to do was a quick search on the internet for what to do with his info.

exactly he swore the oath he knew the consequences of his actions and he had other outlets fo voice his concerns legally

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[ChrisD 0]

This really does tweak what is considered a lawful order as compared with what isn't.

Being in the military, I really don't give a rats ass about this issue. With the free exchange of information that exsists today everyone knows what everyone else has or does anyways! So the free exchange of litrature dosen't amount to crap! This is a political witch hunt driven by some rich assholes agenda!

What I really want to point out, is this pro-military attitude that the public has embraced.

What are you all up too? Laying the groundwork for the next sensless and stupid act of Government sponsed carnage?

Since the dawn of time evolution has given us as humans some petty behaveious that in a "civilized" society have led again and again to war. So once again ignore our brains and engage in shit that is pro military to support the military industrial complex.

You fucking sheep make me sick!

Just my two cents for all of you out there that have never smelled a corpse rotting in the sun.

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[kelpdiver 2]

ayevee8toryear

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His actions were absolutely unethical and illegal.

Did you ever see a declaration of war for Iraq?

Do you think the war in Iraq was justified, legal or ethical?

For crying out loud man!

How stupid can people actually be?

Not so stupid as to make a "two wrongs do make a right" argument as you seem to be attempting.

You can try to dress it up, but what you have is an unhappy guy who dumped every classified document he could find onto a disk and handed it out to be published. In spite of the fact that in his position he swore an oath to protect the nation's classified data.

How we go into the second Iraq war is not relevant to the topic. And for that matter, neither is the contents of the helicopter assault video, when there are hundreds of thousands of other documents involved.

[Kennedy 0]

ChrisD

This really does tweak what is considered a lawful order as compared with what isn't.

Um, no. This doesn't change legal or illegal in the slightest. He took classified material and gave it to unauthorized people. That's illegal.

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Being in the military, I really don't give a rats ass about this issue. With the free exchange of information that exsists today everyone knows what everyone else has or does anyways! So the free exchange of litrature dosen't amount to crap! This is a political witch hunt driven by some rich assholes agenda!

Again, no. The Internet age doesn't mean everyone has access to everything, not should it. Do you want your medical records, disciplinary files, and every other bit of your life open for everyone to read? More than that, this case involves a guy who volunteered to served, swore his oath of enlistment, and then another related to classified material. He is a liar and a piece of shit.

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What I really want to point out, is this pro-military attitude that the public has embraced.

What are you all up too? Laying the groundwork for the next sensless and stupid act of Government sponsed carnage?

Since the dawn of time evolution has given us as humans some petty behaveious that in a "civilized" society have led again and again to war. So once again ignore our brains and engage in shit that is pro military to support the military industrial complex.

You fucking sheep make me sick!

Just my two cents for all of you out there that have never smelled a corpse rotting in the sun.

People who can't string logical sentences together make me sick. Trolls only slightly less so.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[rwieder 0]

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it's called honor, and from the posts you have been making, it looks to be in short supply in your immediate vicinity. i am personally very glad you have never served in our military. and you are welcome for the ability to spout such ignorant bullshit at any time you want, regardless of the facts behind it.

Take it easy there Johnny Cakes!

[rehmwa 2]

He's both, and an asshole. All at once. He should be tried.

And, he made a contract and broke it, so he has no honor.
(This doesn't matter who the contract is with - (for those crybabying about hating the military - that's a really nice subjective sense of situational right vs wrong... "well, it's wrong......unless I can rationalize that he did it to a group I don't like - then it's just fine"). The issue is about him upholding his agreements, not whether it's politically correct in terms of the group or people he contracted with. It's wrong if the contract is with the US Government, it's wrong if the contract is with a little old lady.)

He had legal and honorable ways to express his concerns and grievances. He chose to do it in a purposely harmful and illegal way, regardless. He's scum. At best, he's a petulant, entitled, child with no sense of process or honor. I wouldn't trust him to save me a seat on the bus.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

ChrisD

You fucking sheep make me sick!

this is fascinating -

1 - you go on a tirade about inability to trust the military (made up of men

2 - the you are pissed off that people are upset that a military man acts in a totally untrustworthy fashion and they wanted him to act in a legal and honorable way.....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[normiss 801]

Yes siree bob.

I got out in 1984 and yet some of the stuff I worked on during the development of the programs then, is still top secret today.

I can neither confirm nor deny what I worked on.





and thank you for taking that oath to heart.
Like we're supposed to.

[normiss 801]

He was not given a direct order, therefore there is no "lawful order" as you say.

He had a security clearance to protect information and violated that.

He in the gallows yet with his bread and water?
Loss of all rank?
Withholding pay?
Dishonorable Discharge?
Loss of ALL veteran rights???