NSA collecting phone records of millions of Verizon customers daily

[turtlespeed 220]

quade

Well, I'm glad you equate a child's lemonaide stand to the real issues of food safety when it comes to seafood?!?

Uh, dude, those two issues aren't even in the same fucking ballpark.

Can you not see the correlation?
Fines to little kids for an American Tradition?
Lack of common sense and power hungry government employees.

The stupidity has to start at some level,its just that Goose is pointing out just how far the bar has been lowered to accommodate the the power needs and the grab for ultimate control, and you don't seem to want to acknowledge it.

I guess if it doesn't fit into your argument, you can just minimalism it and it wont exist, right?

Actually, the actions and attitude toward the lemonade stand is nothing less than a foreshadow of the government yet to come.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Gravitymaster 0]

"A man see's what he wants to see, hears what he wants to hear".

[winsor 236]

rushmc

Anyone want to bet if this just is about Verison?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order?guni=Network%20front:network-front%20main-2%20Special%20trail:Network%20front%20-%20special%20trail:Position1

Quote

The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing

If this elicits even a hint of surprise, I highly recommend perusing a copy of The Puzzle Palace.

It may have been published over 30 years ago, but it still gives some idea of what NSA might be up to at any given time. I am quite sure that their mission statement of remaining "5 years ahead of the state of the art" is still intact.


BSBD,

Winsor

P.S. Hi to everyone at Ft. Meade.

[wmw999 2,447]

My husband is considering starting every phone conversation and email with "fuck you NSA" or "fuck you Homeland Security." I'm not sure how well that will go over where he works , but I appreciate the thought.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SkyDekker 1,465]

As I understand it, the warrent does not authorize access to the content of the phone calls. Hence, they are not authorized to listen to the actual calls until a further warrant is applied for and granted.

I can understand the concept and can see how it could lead to usable information in defending against attacks.

Interesting that torturing people got mixed reviews, yet running phone data (not content) through algorithms is almost universally condemned.

[rushmc 23]

Who was torturing?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[dmcoco84 5]

Congressmen and Senators to TK:

TLDR

[yoink 321]

You thought it was just Verizon?

what about Google, Microsoft, Apple, Yahoo, Skype, Facebook etc?


Ladies and Gentlemen - welcome to PRISM.

[lawrocket 3]

Here's the text of the Fourth Amendment:
[Quote]The right of the People to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Here's part of James Clapper's statement:
[Quote]The unauthorized disclosure of information about this important and entirely legal program is reprehensible and risks important protections for the security of Americans.

This is where thinking has gone. It's where lliberties have gone. The security of the People in their persons, papers, etc. is subservient to the security state. The government is saying that the individual security of the People shall yield to the need for the government to keep them secure. It's the embodiment of the "benevolent dictator."

How can the government keep people safe if the government can't get all in your shit? It can't. Madison et al understood that in drafting the Bill of Rights. Some things are more important than the government keeping you safe from everyone - including yourself.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Gravitymaster 0]

I got the pitchforks, you bring the torches.

[rushmc 23]

Because of posts you make, I thought of you when reading this


http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/06/07/progressives-must-stand-with-new-york-times-against-obama/

I am not really sure why at this point

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

This is where thinking has gone. It's where lliberties have gone. The security of the People in their persons, papers, etc. is subservient to the security state. The government is saying that the individual security of the People shall yield to the need for the government to keep them secure. It's the embodiment of the "benevolent dictator."

Numbers are getting matched against numbers. When information is wanted beyond the numbers, warrants are required.

So, I am not sure how that relates to "get all in your shit".

Also not sure how "the individual security of the People" is compromised by running numbers against numbers.

To me the questions lies in subsequent warrant requests. There is a difference between:

1) this number keeps calling a number asociated with a terror organization, Mr Judge may we please find out who it is and what they are talking about.

2) this number keeps calling the Republican party (Democratic Part, communist aprty, local KKK whatever) we would like to know what they are talking about.

I don't see the numbers as having rights, I see the people behind the numbers as having rights. It would appear the rights of those people are still protected.

[lawrocket 3]

This is understood. But the issue for me is this - if so benevolent, then why keep it a secret?

I don't think that there is another place in the world where there would be such outrage over this. Particularly the left - civil liberties types like me - are looking at this another erosion of liberties.

Who am I calling? That's not anybody's business except me, the person I'm calling and the phone company. Does the government have any reasonable articulable suspicion that I am doing something illegal? If not then it's none of the government's business.

That's why we're so pissed off. Feinstein's defense that this is necessary to protect everyone? This is coming from a LIBERAL who is the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee! It's her JOB to rein in the executive branch, not to free-reign the executive. Feinstein's defense is that the President is doing exactly what she HOPED the administration would do.

Give the government power to do something, the government will do it. Often the government will ABUSE it. We're just scrarching the surface right now. Who knows what else is going on? "Warrantless wiretaps," anyone?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[turtlespeed 220]

lawrocket

This is understood. But the issue for me is this - if so benevolent, then why keep it a secret?

I don't think that there is another place in the world where there would be such outrage over this. Particularly the left - civil liberties types like me - are looking at this another erosion of liberties.

Who am I calling? That's not anybody's business except me, the person I'm calling and the phone company. Does the government have any reasonable articulable suspicion that I am doing something illegal? If not then it's none of the government's business.

That's why we're so pissed off. Feinstein's defense that this is necessary to protect everyone? This is coming from a LIBERAL who is the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee! It's her JOB to rein in the executive branch, not to free-reign the executive. Feinstein's defense is that the President is doing exactly what she HOPED the administration would do.

Give the government power to do something, the government will do it. Often the government will ABUSE it. We're just scrarching the surface right now. Who knows what else is going on? "Warrantless wiretaps," anyone?

SHUT UP!
YOU MUST CONFORM TO THE HIVE!

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[quade 4]

rushmc

Because of posts you make, I thought of you when reading this
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/06/07/progressives-must-stand-with-new-york-times-against-obama/
I am not really sure why at this point

Where was YOUR outrage 10 years ago?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gravitymaster 0]

quade

***Because of posts you make, I thought of you when reading this
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/06/07/progressives-must-stand-with-new-york-times-against-obama/
I am not really sure why at this point

Where was YOUR outrage 10 years ago?

Where was you outrage when Clinton did it?

I think we can all agree that with the knowledge we now have, that it's time to put our foot down on this out of control government.

If you haven't had enough, yet, what is it going to take for you to say enough is enough? Where's your line?

[rushmc 23]

quade

***Because of posts you make, I thought of you when reading this
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/06/07/progressives-must-stand-with-new-york-times-against-obama/
I am not really sure why at this point

Where was YOUR outrage 10 years ago?

I just read the comments of Sensnebrenner (sp?)

And I am learning that I dont care of the who anymore.

This is not a republican or democrate thing anymore

This is the eletes of the Feg gov vs the people

10 years ago I didnt like some parts of the Patriot Act

Today, I am not sure I like any of it

I think I was wrong back then
Are you wrong now?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[livendive 8]

I'm with you on this. I don't know if my phone records qualify as papers or effects, but if the government wants to look at them, they should get a warrant specfically describing their probable cause.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[rushmc 23]

livendive

I'm with you on this. I don't know if my phone records qualify as papers or effects, but if the government wants to look at them, they should get a warrant specfically describing their probable cause.

Blues,
Dave

Does not happen often but
We agree on this

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[BikerBabe 0]

here's a nice article that doesn't seem biased, just a listing of the facts, names, vote numbers, etc:

http://news.yahoo.com/heres-exactly-blame-congress-authorizing-government-spying-164654883.html

So people can lay blame where it belongs.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[quade 4]

rushmc

This is not a republican or democrate thing anymore
This is the eletes of the Feg gov vs the people
10 years ago I didnt like some parts of the Patriot Act
Today, I am not sure I like any of it
I think I was wrong back then
Are you wrong now?

I have nothing in my past or present in regards to this that I'm ashamed of. I opposed it then. I oppose it now. How hard is that to understand?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 23]

quade

***
This is not a republican or democrate thing anymore
This is the eletes of the Feg gov vs the people
10 years ago I didnt like some parts of the Patriot Act
Today, I am not sure I like any of it
I think I was wrong back then
Are you wrong now?

I have nothing in my past or present in regards to this that I'm ashamed of. I opposed it then. I oppose it now. How hard is that to understand?

Oh
so cute
as if to imply I should be ashamed
Sorry
I am not ashamed to admit an opinion was wrong
after learning more

So, to clear it up
You oppose Obama on this?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Bignugget 0]

Kennedy

***If the US goverment uses billions to build places like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center then isn't it kind of obvious they need to some data to store?

Yep, scooping up every phone call is bad enough. But Utah is much more interested in the interwebz.
AT&T engineer: NSA built secret rooms in our facilities

wikipedia: Room 641a

Quote

Room 641A is located in the SBC Communications building at 611 Folsom Street, San Francisco, three floors of which were occupied by AT&T before SBC purchased AT&T. The room was referred to in internal AT&T documents as the SG3 [Study Group 3] Secure Room. It is fed by fiber optic lines from beam splitters installed in fiber optic trunks carrying Internet backbone traffic and, as analyzed by J. Scott Marcus, a former CTO for GTE and a former adviser to the FCC, has access to all Internet traffic that passes through the building, and therefore "the capability to enable surveillance and analysis of internet content on a massive scale, including both overseas and purely domestic traffic." Former director of the NSA’s World Geopolitical and Military Analysis Reporting Group, William Binney, has estimated that 10 to 20 such facilities have been installed throughout the nation.

Report: NSA is collecting phone records of Verizon customers

Quote

Officials at the White House and the NSA declined immediate comment. Verizon spokesman Ed McFadden declined to comment.

Verizon's biggest rival, AT&T Inc, did not provide any immediate comment when asked if the government had made a similar request for its data.
snip
In 2005, the New York Times reported that the NSA was wiretapping Americans without warrants on international calls. Los Angeles Times and USA Today later reported that the agency also had unchecked access to records on domestic calls.

In addition, a former AT&T technician, Mark Klein, said that a room accessible only with NSA clearance in the carrier's main San Francisco hub received perfect copies of all transmissions.

Honestly though, dont google a bunch of bomb ingredients, or kiddy porn....or KILL OBAMA, and you are in the pile of 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 billion google searches a day that don't get flagged.....

What's the problem again?

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

Honestly though, dont google a bunch of bomb ingredients, or kiddy porn....or KILL OBAMA, and you are in the pile of 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 billion google searches a day that don't get flagged.....

What's the problem again?

How about the fact that you may have just pinged because you typed a whole set of double ungoodthink words?

And seeing that I down time with curious and educated minds, I occasionally look up things they'd frown on. Yeah, I looked up (and found) AQ's Inspire magazine. I read about the Feds loosing a half ton of explosives because they weren't following their own guidelines. I spend time with a few EOD guys that, if not friends, are at least respected associates. I helped a postgrad with his work on encryption and wireless communication, specifically as it relates to intercepting and decoding signals from a ground station to remote vehicles. (Overriding them was specifically not covered, and while not a simple expansion, it's not a huge leap either)

I've had interesting conversations with far smarter and more experienced people than me about vulnerabilities of people and places. Even the secret service can only do so much, and nobody else in this hemisphere has that level of protection.

Oh, and just for those nameless faceless ones, jihad holy war revenge great satan homeland bombing attack kill murder Americans president target revenge Allahu Ackbar.

And FYI there are four or five billion google searches a day.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Bignugget 0]

Kennedy

Quote

Honestly though, dont google a bunch of bomb ingredients, or kiddy porn....or KILL OBAMA, and you are in the pile of 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 billion google searches a day that don't get flagged.....

What's the problem again?

How about the fact that you may have just pinged because you typed a whole set of double ungoodthink words?

And seeing that I down time with curious and educated minds, I occasionally look up things they'd frown on. Yeah, I looked up (and found) AQ's Inspire magazine. I read about the Feds loosing a half ton of explosives because they weren't following their own guidelines. I spend time with a few EOD guys that, if not friends, are at least respected associates. I helped a postgrad with his work on encryption and wireless communication, specifically as it relates to intercepting and decoding signals from a ground station to remote vehicles. (Overriding them was specifically not covered, and while not a simple expansion, it's not a huge leap either)

I've had interesting conversations with far smarter and more experienced people than me about vulnerabilities of people and places. Even the secret service can only do so much, and nobody else in this hemisphere has that level of protection.

Oh, and just for those nameless faceless ones, jihad holy war revenge great satan homeland bombing attack kill murder Americans president target revenge Allahu Ackbar.

And FYI there are four or five billion google searches a day.

So...your real worry is after you show up on their radar for all that stuff you mentioned....they will decide its criminal behavior and come after you?

I for one am not particularly worried about them seeing my forum posts and deciding im really what they are looking for.

I can see the argument. It's like when you have that joint on you in the car, and the cop asks to search.

"If you have nothing to hide why can't I search?" It sure is nice to say, because the big bad govt. cant look at my stuff without my say so.

But since you cannot and will not ever be able to stop electronic surveillance....don't look up kiddy porn, and stop worrying.

ETA: Unless you are Gene Hackman in "Enemy Of The State"