turtlespeed 220 #1 June 7, 2013 . . . our government voted us more freedom and liberty? Seriously. I cant find anything in my lifetime.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #2 June 7, 2013 Off the top of my head... twice in my lifetime. First were the civil rights legislation in the 1960s. Next were some of the post-Watergate restrictions on govt & LEOs resulting from the Nixon Admin's abuses. And many of the latter have been emasculated by the post-9/11 Patriot Act-class of orgasmatron. That's about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #3 June 7, 2013 >. . . our government voted us more freedom and liberty? The Supreme Court may be about to do it. That would be cool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #4 June 7, 2013 billvon>. . . our government voted us more freedom and liberty? The Supreme Court may be about to do it. That would be cool. Yeah, I was thinking/answering strictly in terms of legislation ; I might have cited a few more had I included the courts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #5 June 7, 2013 I can't think of an instance with the Federal Government, but several state governments (including mine) have recently passes same-sex marriage laws, which I'd say count as increased freedom and liberty. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #6 June 7, 2013 livendiveI can't think of an instance with the Federal Government, but several state governments (including mine) have recently passes same-sex marriage laws, which I'd say count as increased freedom and liberty. Blues, Dave I should have specified . . . yes, Federal.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CygnusX-1 43 #7 June 8, 2013 Again, I'm thinking you mean the legislative branch but if you include the SCOTUS, the big one I can think of is Roe v Wade. Elected officials - I can't think of a one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #8 June 8, 2013 livendiveI can't think of an instance with the Federal Government, but several state governments (including mine) have recently passes same-sex marriage laws, which I'd say count as increased freedom and liberty. Oh, yeah - the slow trickle of states that are decriminalizing marijuana. The feds remain opposed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #9 June 8, 2013 People just aren't getting it. All these laws are out there for freedom and liberty. If we didn't have wiretaps, we wouldn't know who not to arrest! My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #10 June 8, 2013 turtlespeed***I can't think of an instance with the Federal Government, but several state governments (including mine) have recently passes same-sex marriage laws, which I'd say count as increased freedom and liberty. Blues, Dave I should have specified . . . yes, Federal. It seems that people can now donate unlimited funds toward electing their candidate of choice. While I disagree with the concept of being able to buy an election, I still have to acknowledge its an increase in freedom, or at least less of a restriction thereof. Don't ask, don't tell repealed. Women now allowed in combat. The ban on scary black guns was allowed to expire. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #11 June 8, 2013 Andy9o8Oh, yeah - the slow trickle of states that are decriminalizing marijuana. I can now exercise my right to breathe clean air in public places, which was all but impossible 10-15 years ago.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #12 June 8, 2013 jcd11235***Oh, yeah - the slow trickle of states that are decriminalizing marijuana. I can now exercise my right to breathe clean air in public places, which was all but impossible 10-15 years ago. You could before, simply by choice and avoidance, now the rights of those that want to smoke are infringed.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #13 June 8, 2013 livendive. >>>>Don't ask, don't tell repealed. How is that an additional freedom? If you didn't ask, and no one told, what is the repeal doing to further liberty? >>>>Women now allowed in combat. Again, how is that an expansion of liberty? Are you arguing that it is a good thing for our women to be able to die on the battlefield now? >>>>The ban on scary black guns was allowed to expire. That might be, but what about magazines of a certain size? Blues, DaveI'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #14 June 8, 2013 turtlespeed*** can now exercise my right to breathe clean air in public places, which was all but impossible 10-15 years ago. You could before, simply by choice and avoidance … That would be a textbook example of an inability to exercise a right. turtlespeed… now the rights of those that want to smoke are infringed. That's like claiming that laws against murder violate the second amendment. Smokers have a right to smoke, but do not have a right to poison others with their toxic emissions. They still have a right to smoke. That right has not been infringed.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #15 June 8, 2013 turtlespeed***. >>>>Don't ask, don't tell repealed. How is that an additional freedom? If you didn't ask, and no one told, what is the repeal doing to further liberty? People are now free to ask, and tell, and still join the military. Quote***>>>>Women now allowed in combat. Again, how is that an expansion of liberty? Are you arguing that it is a good thing for our women to be able to die on the battlefield now? Women who wish to participate in combat now have the freedom to do so. Quote***>>>>The ban on scary black guns was allowed to expire. That might be, but what about magazines of a certain size? Magazines of what size? I can still buy 30 round magazines for my AR, and I'm unaware of any restrictions on larger capacities. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #16 June 8, 2013 QuoteWomen who wish to participate in combat now have the freedom to do so. Funny how times change. I clearly remember watching the evening news on TV and seeing riots in American streets and campuses over the right to NOT participate in combat. "Be careful what you wish for", so the saying goes, "you just might get it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #17 June 8, 2013 >Funny how times change. I clearly remember watching the evening news on TV and >seeing riots in American streets and campuses over the right to NOT participate in >combat. Well, in both cases people were demanding the freedom to make the choice for themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #18 June 8, 2013 jcd11235****** can now exercise my right to breathe clean air in public places, which was all but impossible 10-15 years ago. You could before, simply by choice and avoidance … That would be a textbook example of an inability to exercise a right. turtlespeed… now the rights of those that want to smoke are infringed. That's like claiming that laws against murder violate the second amendment. Smokers have a right to smoke, but do not have a right to poison others with their toxic emissions. They still have a right to smoke. That right has not been infringed. So making others have to avoid is acceptable, depending on your point of view. Gotcha.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #19 June 8, 2013 >So making others have to avoid is acceptable Yes. You can swing your fist all you like. But you must avoid swinging it into people's faces. Pretty simple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #20 June 8, 2013 billvon>So making others have to avoid is acceptable Yes. You can swing your fist all you like. But you must avoid swinging it into people's faces. Pretty simple. Its simple right. Just put a sign up that says "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone", and "This is a smoking establishment." If you don't like it, your problem. No one MAKES you listen to a radio program. You can turn the channel. To use your analogy, if you don't want to get hit, don't get in the cage with the cage fighters. If you don't want to get hit by a prop, don't walk under or around an airplane. But taking away our choices is not ever liberty, it is oppression.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #21 June 8, 2013 >Just put a sign up that says "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone", and >"This is a smoking establishment." If you don't like it, your problem. Agreed. If you open a bar yourself and want to run it that way, I'm all for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #22 June 8, 2013 turtlespeed********* can now exercise my right to breathe clean air in public places, which was all but impossible 10-15 years ago. You could before, simply by choice and avoidance … That would be a textbook example of an inability to exercise a right. turtlespeed… now the rights of those that want to smoke are infringed. That's like claiming that laws against murder violate the second amendment. Smokers have a right to smoke, but do not have a right to poison others with their toxic emissions. They still have a right to smoke. That right has not been infringed. So making others have to avoid is acceptable, depending on your point of view. Gotcha. It's ironic that you're advocating exactly the same thing that your criticizing me for. The difference is that I think it is the polluters who have an obligation to respect the right to breathe clean air, while you feel that it is the an obligation of people who breathe to respect that others have a right to carelessly pollute the air in public spaces.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #23 June 26, 2013 >When was the last time . . .our government voted us more freedom and liberty? June 26 2013. They get it right sometimes. Not often, but sometimes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 220 #24 June 26, 2013 billvon>When was the last time . . .our government voted us more freedom and liberty? June 26 2013. They get it right sometimes. Not often, but sometimes. Not sure it helped everyone with more freedom. A minority, yes, they have more freedom, the mojority had theirs squashed just a little more.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #25 June 26, 2013 turtlespeed***>When was the last time . . .our government voted us more freedom and liberty? June 26 2013. They get it right sometimes. Not often, but sometimes. Not sure it helped everyone with more freedom. A minority, yes, they have more freedom, the mojority had theirs squashed just a little more. How so? The majority has every right and freedom they had yesterday. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
