Skydiving and climate change - hypocrisy?

[Jalien 0]

Not sure if this should be here or in SC, so apologies if it's in the wrong place...

When we jump out of a plane, we've burned a hell of a lot of fuel to get there, and released a lot of CO2 just for a few moments of fun. So for those that believe that climate change is occurring, and that we should be doing something about it, what is your justification for continuing in such an environmentally-unfriendly hobby?

Personally, I do believe that we are changing the climate for the worse, and I have tried to cut down my carbon emissions to some extent. On the other hand, I really like skydiving, and so currently feel like quite a hypocrite.

What are your thoughts? (Obviously if you don't believe in any negative consequences of burning hydrocarbons then the question is moot and you don't need to answer )

[babz 0]

It is a question I asked myself, and I'm pretty comfortable saying I don't really care. There isn't a way to do this in a more carbon neutral manner.

I'm still not sold that we've got it right with global warming, and even if our theory is correct banning skydiving will make a tiny dent in the numbers - its not like its a big sport.

Making countries like China clean up their manufacturing processes would go alot further than banning jumping.

[airtwardo 7]

The 'mini-ice age' that lasted a few centuries was attributed to volcanic action putting vast amounts of sulphur into the atmosphere, reflecting the sun's radiation and cooling the planet.

So there are a lot of factors to consider...me not skydiving is probably one of the smaller ones that would see VERY little effect, or likely none at all.

I think there are a thousand other ways to look at 1st.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Jalien 0]

I don't really agree with this attitude, that "what I do doesn't matter because it's such a small part of the whole", but in any case, it led me to calculate roughly what impact skydiving has on one's carbon footprint.

Taking a Cessna 208, it apparently burns ~60 gallons of fuel per hour; taking ~20 skydivers to altitude in ~20 minutes means that you are responsible for burning one gallon per jump. Googling suggests that this is equivalent to ~20 pounds of CO2. So in a modest year's jumping (100 jumps) you're increasing emissions by ~2000 lbs. To put this in perspective, this is about 5% of the average American's carbon footprint.

I disagree that this is a very small contribution to total personal emissions.

[Ron 10]

babz

It is a question I asked myself, and I'm pretty comfortable saying I don't really care. There isn't a way to do this in a more carbon neutral manner.

I'm still not sold that we've got it right with global warming, and even if our theory is correct banning skydiving will make a tiny dent in the numbers - its not like its a big sport.

Making countries like China clean up their manufacturing processes would go alot further than banning jumping.

No single drop of rain wants to feel responsible for the flood.

IMO, if you are a staunch GW supporter and you drive an SUV, or use fossil fuels for recreation you are a hypocrite.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[MikeJD 0]

Jalien

I don't really agree with this attitude, that "what I do doesn't matter because it's such a small part of the whole"

I think it depends on what you want to achieve. If it's to salve your conscience then yes, giving up skydiving may help. If it's to save the planet from climate change, then I don't believe that you (or indeed every skydiver) hanging up his or her rig will have any appreciable benefit whatsoever. Giving up jumping and dedicating all of your free time to ecological campaigning just might - but it's still unlikely.

There are so many ways to cut this. You express the skydiving impact as 5% of the average American's carbon footprint - can I argue that because I'm not planning on having any kids (American or otherwise) I'm still at least 95% in credit?

I don't mean to put down your ambitions, by the way - they're noble, and we should all be taking some responsibility. But unless you're willing to suck all the joy out of your life then I think there is always going to be compromise.

[airtwardo 7]

Jalien

I don't really agree with this attitude, that "what I do doesn't matter because it's such a small part of the whole", but in any case, it led me to calculate roughly what impact skydiving has on one's carbon footprint.

Taking a Cessna 208, it apparently burns ~60 gallons of fuel per hour; taking ~20 skydivers to altitude in ~20 minutes means that you are responsible for burning one gallon per jump. Googling suggests that this is equivalent to ~20 pounds of CO2. So in a modest year's jumping (100 jumps) you're increasing emissions by ~2000 lbs. To put this in perspective, this is about 5% of the average American's carbon footprint.

I disagree that this is a very small contribution to total personal emissions.

If you feel that strongly then yes by all means ~ quit skydiving!

But personally, I think there are lots of other much more impact prone ways of lowering the human footprint.

How many dead dinosaurs were put into the atmosphere by our presidents recent trip to Africa? Think Air Force One, the cargo planes that follow, the fighter escorts...etc. Was THAT a necessary use of fuel?

Think of all the commercial jets making daily schedules with less than full passenger compartments.

The 1000's of military training missions gulping fuel at astronomical rates...

Do you drive a well tuned car at the most economical speed & only for absolutely necessary reasons? Got the airconditioner on in your home set below 75 degrees?

In the grand scheme a 208 full of jumpers is less than a pimple on the ass of the problem in a 'big picture' way.

But again...if you sleep better knowing you're saving the environment by not jumping....by all means shorten the line at manifest!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[ryoder 1,590]

OK, I'm convinced.
I'm going to become a BASE jumper because it's greener.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[quade 4]

ryoder

OK, I'm convinced.
I'm going to become a BASE jumper because it's greener.

Well, potentially. But unfortunately some early litterbug BASE jumpers didn't exactly do you any favors in Yosemite.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lawrocket 3]

Jalien

I don't really agree with this attitude, that "what I do doesn't matter because it's such a small part of the whole", but in any case, it led me to calculate roughly what impact skydiving has on one's carbon footprint.

Taking a Cessna 208, it apparently burns ~60 gallons of fuel per hour; taking ~20 skydivers to altitude in ~20 minutes means that you are responsible for burning one gallon per jump. Googling suggests that this is equivalent to ~20 pounds of CO2. So in a modest year's jumping (100 jumps) you're increasing emissions by ~2000 lbs. To put this in perspective, this is about 5% of the average American's carbon footprint.

I disagree that this is a very small contribution to total personal emissions.

You also failed to account for the vast amount of methane (a highly potent greenhouse gas) that is released in a jump plane that is climbing to altitude due to Boyle's law...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[quade 4]

lawrocket

You also failed to account for the vast amount of methane (a highly potent greenhouse gas) that is released in a jump plane that is climbing to altitude due to Boyle's law...

But that gas was destined to be released sooner or later, so it's net nothing of an increase even if it is a temporary gross change.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airtwardo 7]

quade

***You also failed to account for the vast amount of methane (a highly potent greenhouse gas) that is released in a jump plane that is climbing to altitude due to Boyle's law...

But that gas was destined to be released sooner or later, so it's net nothing of an increase even if it is a temporary gross change.

Which would be a 'greener' release...the raw gas or igniting it around the bonfire utilizing the heat & light properties?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[quade 4]

airtwardo

Which would be a 'greener' release...the raw gas or igniting it around the bonfire utilizing the heat & light properties?

CH4[g] + 2 O2[g] -> CO2[g] + 2 H2O[l] + 891 kJ

Tough call.

If you could harness the heat for some useful purpose other than burning a person's asshole, I dunno. Might be better than letting it escape for no purpose whatsoever.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airtwardo 7]

quade

***Which would be a 'greener' release...the raw gas or igniting it around the bonfire utilizing the heat & light properties?

CH4[g] + 2 O2[g] -> CO2[g] + 2 H2O[l] + 891 kJ

Tough call.

Not when adding the entertainment factor...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[kelpdiver 2]

Jalien

Taking a Cessna 208, it apparently burns ~60 gallons of fuel per hour; taking ~20 skydivers to altitude in ~20 minutes means that you are responsible for burning one gallon per jump. Googling suggests that this is equivalent to ~20 pounds of CO2. So in a modest year's jumping (100 jumps) you're increasing emissions by ~2000 lbs. To put this in perspective, this is about 5% of the average American's carbon footprint.

I disagree that this is a very small contribution to total personal emissions.

The fuel spent by the plane is often dwarfed the the fuel spent getting to/from the DZ. The 5 or 6 DZs circling San Francisco range between 90 and 120 miles away. And with the potential winds, fog, clouds, there's no guarantee of a full (or small) day of jumping at many of them - Monterey Bay was often a tiny window, Davis and esp Byron can get winded out in the PM. Hollister for me nearly always delivered, but once in a while the clouds/err haze would come along.

In any event, 200 miles = 8 or so gallons of fuel in my car. I would do 2-7 jumps in a day.

Quite often I drove south to LA to visit friends/family and go out to Elsinore for their Excel days. 75 miles from Orange Co to Elsinore, on top of the 430 miles from SF to OC. For those I'd do 5-7 jumps per day, but the car fuel was still the lead by far.

I suppose to be fair, however, you have to consider what the alternative recreation would be to get an appropriate measure. If I go diving in Monterey instead, I'm still driving 120 miles each way.

[Arvoitus 1]

I don't care about climate change but should someone start bitching to me about jumping I'd just say that I've never owned a car in my 31 years of age and have no intention of ever having the standard 2.6 children, so the saves in CO2 emission that I've earned are well above the little I end up creating by doing my 160 or so jumps a year.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[airtwardo 7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtnu9b701RE

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Arvoitus 1]

quade

***Which would be a 'greener' release...the raw gas or igniting it around the bonfire utilizing the heat & light properties?

CH4[g] + 2 O2[g] -> CO2[g] + 2 H2O[l] + 891 kJ

Tough call.

If you could harness the heat for some useful purpose other than burning a person's asshole, I dunno. Might be better than letting it escape for no purpose whatsoever.

Isn't methane like 25 times more potent greenhouse gas then CO2. I'm too tired to do any thinking on whether the heat released by the reaction makes any difference but my gut feeling says that it'd better to just burn it off.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[billvon 2,991]

>Isn't methane like 25 times more potent greenhouse gas then CO2.

Over a 20 year horizon it's ~70 times more potent; over a 100 year horizon it's ~25 times more potent. (It breaks down a lot faster than CO2.) Currently anthropogenic CO2 contributes about 1.5 w/sq m to overall warming; methane contributes about .5 w/sq m.

[lawrocket 3]

[Quote]But that gas was destined to be released sooner or later, so it's net nothing of an increase even if it is a temporary gross change.

But it's being put closer to the upper troposphere where mixing willl be more efficient.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[quade 4]

lawrocket

[Quote]But that gas was destined to be released sooner or later, so it's net nothing of an increase even if it is a temporary gross change.

But it's being put closer to the upper troposphere where mixing willl be more efficient.

Only slightly. We like to think of skydiving as taking place up high. It's really not all that high. I mean, unless you participated in a safety meeting out in the parking lot.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airtwardo 7]

quade

***[Quote]But that gas was destined to be released sooner or later, so it's net nothing of an increase even if it is a temporary gross change.

But it's being put closer to the upper troposphere where mixing willl be more efficient.

Only slightly. We like to think of skydiving as taking place up high. It's really not all that high. I mean, unless you participated in a safety meeting out in the parking lot.

Back to the entertainment factor...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

...that you are responsible for burning one gallon per jump. Googling suggests that this is equivalent to ~20 pounds of CO2.

A gallon of gas is ~20 pounds of CO2? How much does a gallon of gas weight? Uhm, I've never been impressed with green math skills, and there is a reason for that.

We are all engines of karma

[quade 4]

StreetScooby

Quote

...that you are responsible for burning one gallon per jump. Googling suggests that this is equivalent to ~20 pounds of CO2.

A gallon of gas is ~20 pounds of CO2? How much does a gallon of gas weight? Uhm, I've never been impressed with green math skills, and there is a reason for that.

Ever take chemistry in high-school?

Each molecule of gasoline holds a LOT of atoms of carbon. When it burns it combines each atom of carbon in the gasoline molecule with two oxygen molecules. In doing so, the many CO2 molecules end up weighing significantly more than the single gasoline molecule.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,991]

>Uhm, I've never been impressed with green math skills, and there is a reason for that.

Cause it's complicated?