DOMA Struck Down

[DanG 1]

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"It is a shame that it has come to this but, we will not uphold the law of the land. No activities of any sort will be held by that group of people on any church property or in our church facilities."

Your pastor apparently has no idea what the law of the land is regarding gay marriage. It's a shame you follow such an ignorant man.

- Dan G

[RonD1120 62]

DanG

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"It is a shame that it has come to this but, we will not uphold the law of the land. No activities of any sort will be held by that group of people on any church property or in our church facilities."

Your pastor apparently has no idea what the law of the land is regarding gay marriage. It's a shame you follow such an ignorant man.

I think you misunderstand. He knows exactly what is at stake. The church will pull his license and credentials if he disobeys their ruling. OTH, the Feds can pull the tax exempt status of the church. They call this drawing a line in the sand.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[DanG 1]

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I think you misunderstand.

No, I understand quite well. I understand that granting same sex, legally married couples federal benefits has exactly zero impact on your church.

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He knows exactly what is at stake. The church will pull his license and credentials if he disobeys their ruling.

No one is asking him or your church to do anything, whatsoever.

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OTH, the Feds can pull the tax exempt status of the church.

That's pure fantasy, and nothing to do with DOMA being struck down. Did you church have tax exempt status before DOMA? Then it will still have it now.

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They call this drawing a line in the sand.

I don't know what "this" is, but if you mean your church's stand, then no one has any interest in crossing your line in the sand.

- Dan G

[RonD1120 62]

DanG

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I think you misunderstand.

No, I understand quite well. I understand that granting same sex, legally married couples federal benefits has exactly zero impact on your church.

Quote

He knows exactly what is at stake. The church will pull his license and credentials if he disobeys their ruling.

No one is asking him or your church to do anything, whatsoever.

Quote

OTH, the Feds can pull the tax exempt status of the church.

That's pure fantasy, and nothing to do with DOMA being struck down. Did you church have tax exempt status before DOMA? Then it will still have it now.

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They call this drawing a line in the sand.

I don't know what "this" is, but if you mean your church's stand, then no one has any interest in crossing your line in the sand.

Yes, you totally misunderstand.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[DanG 1]

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Yes, you totally misunderstand.

Surprising, when you do such a great job of explaining yourself

- Dan G

[stevebabin 0]

RonD1120

*********

You live your life your way, and don't try to force others conform to your myths. Then we'll all be happy.

The problem is when folks like you attempt to code your morality into law for others who don't agree with you.

In the 17 and 18th Centuries it all started out as Christian. Your myths have been successfully forced on us. Fortunately, our happiness is not dependent on what you and your ilk do. We know how it ends. But, life is going to get very hard in the near future.

The difference is that I don't call for laws that force my morality on you. You, OTOH, want to force your morality on everyone else.

We just want America to continue with the morality of its beginning. The die has been cast. You and the others like you have won. Now you can be happy, happy, happy. We are pulling out into our little corners and settlements. You can have the rest of the world and all it has to offer. America is going to be divided up much like Europe with all its associated decadence and debauchery. New England, Chicago, parts of Colorado and most of California will become areas to avoid at all costs. It's your victory, enjoy your spoils. I am just going to watch the maggots feed.
Alas, you have not included any mention of WHEN this is going to happen. Do you have the stones to give us a date by which your little prophecy will come to pass?

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[ianmdrennan 2]

“Anticipating the end of the world is humanity's oldest passtime”
~ David Mitchell

Performance Designs Factory Team

[RonD1120 62]

stevebabin

Alas, you have not included any mention of WHEN this is going to happen. Do you have the stones to give us a date by which your little prophecy will come to pass?

Nope, don't have a date; just wait and watch. You are smart enough to figure it out as it unfolds.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[turtlespeed 220]

stevebabin

************

You live your life your way, and don't try to force others conform to your myths. Then we'll all be happy.

The problem is when folks like you attempt to code your morality into law for others who don't agree with you.

In the 17 and 18th Centuries it all started out as Christian. Your myths have been successfully forced on us. Fortunately, our happiness is not dependent on what you and your ilk do. We know how it ends. But, life is going to get very hard in the near future.

The difference is that I don't call for laws that force my morality on you. You, OTOH, want to force your morality on everyone else.

Trying to force a lack of morality on someone is just as bad, if not worse.
How, exactly, could someone force a lack of morality on you, Turtle?

The same way that someone can force morality on someone.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[LyraM45 0]

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How, exactly, could someone force a lack of morality on you, Turtle?

The same way that someone can force morality on someone.

I think somebody hit on this in another reply, but how is this true? There is a big difference between the two, especially when it comes to equal rights. When christians force their morality on others, like the current hot topic of not allowing gays the same rights as everybody else because it's "immoral" or "against God's law," it's disenfranchised a whole group because of your moral code. OTOH, if you allow gays to marry (which, according to some here would be forcing immorality on everybody), who is that disenfranchising? Who is that hurting in terms of equal rights? What rights would you loose if DOMA is "forcing immorality on everybody?"

The answer is nobody and none. Big difference between forcing what one thinks is "immoral" vs. "moral" on everybody. Definitely not the same.

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[kallend 2,026]

turtlespeed

***************

You live your life your way, and don't try to force others conform to your myths. Then we'll all be happy.

The problem is when folks like you attempt to code your morality into law for others who don't agree with you.

In the 17 and 18th Centuries it all started out as Christian. Your myths have been successfully forced on us. Fortunately, our happiness is not dependent on what you and your ilk do. We know how it ends. But, life is going to get very hard in the near future.

The difference is that I don't call for laws that force my morality on you. You, OTOH, want to force your morality on everyone else.

Trying to force a lack of morality on someone is just as bad, if not worse.
How, exactly, could someone force a lack of morality on you, Turtle?

The same way that someone can force morality on someone.

Lame answer.

Who is forcing you to act contrary to your moral code? Is someone forcing you into a gay marriage? Is someone forcing you to be an abortion provider?

Give an example of how you have been forced by any law to behave immorally.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 220]

kallend

******************

You live your life your way, and don't try to force others conform to your myths. Then we'll all be happy.

The problem is when folks like you attempt to code your morality into law for others who don't agree with you.

In the 17 and 18th Centuries it all started out as Christian. Your myths have been successfully forced on us. Fortunately, our happiness is not dependent on what you and your ilk do. We know how it ends. But, life is going to get very hard in the near future.

The difference is that I don't call for laws that force my morality on you. You, OTOH, want to force your morality on everyone else.

Trying to force a lack of morality on someone is just as bad, if not worse.
How, exactly, could someone force a lack of morality on you, Turtle?

The same way that someone can force morality on someone.

Lame answer.

Who is forcing you to act contrary to your moral code? Is someone forcing you into a gay marriage? Is someone forcing you to be an abortion provider?

Give an example of how you have been forced by any law to behave immorally.

Every argument you raise can be countered by reversing the affected.

Its about belief, and what you want to make yourself feel better.

It was mentioned that "Civil Union" would be too hard to amend into law because there are just too many references to Marriage. THAT is a friggin cop out. You know it, and every one else knows it.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[LyraM45 0]

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Its about belief, and what you want to make yourself feel better.

And honestly that is more than OK. Everybody is entitled to their beliefs. The second that your beliefs start working into law and forcing a certain group to have less rights because of those beliefs; this is where I have a problem.

"An it harm none, do what ye will."

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[davjohns 1]

turtlespeed

***************

You live your life your way, and don't try to force others conform to your myths. Then we'll all be happy.

The problem is when folks like you attempt to code your morality into law for others who don't agree with you.

In the 17 and 18th Centuries it all started out as Christian. Your myths have been successfully forced on us. Fortunately, our happiness is not dependent on what you and your ilk do. We know how it ends. But, life is going to get very hard in the near future.

The difference is that I don't call for laws that force my morality on you. You, OTOH, want to force your morality on everyone else.

Trying to force a lack of morality on someone is just as bad, if not worse.
How, exactly, could someone force a lack of morality on you, Turtle?

The same way that someone can force morality on someone.

I guess I should have been paying attention to who said what. I often don't.

When I read the question posed to Turtle, what I thought I read was "Turtle, you are so immoral that imposing immorality on you is like convincing a slut to spread her legs." Or, immorality and perversion is just Turtle's idea of a good Friday night.

I totally missed the argumentative nature of the question.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[kallend 2,026]

Notice that turtle has avoided giving a direct answer to the question. Just lame generalities.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 220]

LyraM45

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Its about belief, and what you want to make yourself feel better.

And honestly that is more than OK. Everybody is entitled to their beliefs. The second that your beliefs start working into law and forcing a certain group to have less rights because of those beliefs; this is where I have a problem.

It's not just changing a definition . . . its changing what most of the country believes . . . just because of the "feel good" factor, disregarding the vast majority, and pandering to a small minority.

All because people are to lazy to add a few words next to legislation.

Well that and the "Na nya nya na" that the left gets to thumb at the population of the country.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[GeorgiaDon 362]

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Its about belief, and what you want to make yourself feel better.

I had no idea that this country was founded, and the Constitution and Bill of Rights were written, with the purpose of making you feel good about yourself.

Lots of people don't like guns. Are you willing to give up your second amendment rights so they can feel better?

You know that old mythology about the world balancing on the back of a turtle? Well it isn't true. The world does not revolve around turtles or their prejudices or their need to make themselves "superior" by legislating that anyone who isn't a turtle is "inferior".

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[LyraM45 0]

turtlespeed

***

Quote

Its about belief, and what you want to make yourself feel better.

And honestly that is more than OK. Everybody is entitled to their beliefs. The second that your beliefs start working into law and forcing a certain group to have less rights because of those beliefs; this is where I have a problem.

It's not just changing a definition . . . its changing what most of the country believes . . . just because of the "feel good" factor, disregarding the vast majority, and pandering to a small minority.

All because people are to lazy to add a few words next to legislation.

Well that and the "Na nya nya na" that the left gets to thumb at the population of the country.


Is it really most of the country? I hear that the percentage of people who support gay marriage is higher than those who don't overall nationally. I know wikipedia isn't the best source, but seems to sum it up pretty well with the "majority" being in support of gay marriage in most recent years polls, even if by a small margin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_of_same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States

Speaking of the minority, there are laws and processes we have that will protect the minority, particularly in situations where the majority is voting on an issue concerning their rights and what they can and can not do. I don't know if I'd call that pandering to a small minority, especially if it is in fact true that people against gay marriage are technically the minority.

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[turtlespeed 220]

LyraM45

******

Quote

Its about belief, and what you want to make yourself feel better.

And honestly that is more than OK. Everybody is entitled to their beliefs. The second that your beliefs start working into law and forcing a certain group to have less rights because of those beliefs; this is where I have a problem.

It's not just changing a definition . . . its changing what most of the country believes . . . just because of the "feel good" factor, disregarding the vast majority, and pandering to a small minority.

All because people are to lazy to add a few words next to legislation.

Well that and the "Na nya nya na" that the left gets to thumb at the population of the country.


Is it really most of the country? I hear that the percentage of people who support gay marriage is higher than those who don't overall nationally. I know wikipedia isn't the best source, but seems to sum it up pretty well with the "majority" being in support of gay marriage in most recent years polls, even if by a small margin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_of_same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States

Speaking of the minority, there are laws and processes we have that will protect the minority, particularly in situations where the majority is voting on an issue concerning their rights and what they can and can not do. I don't know if I'd call that pandering to a small minority, especially if it is in fact true that people against gay marriage are technically the minority.

Well, then, I guess I was wrong. But then that wouldn't be the first time.

Still, I don't agree with the change in definition just because the lazy assed bureaucrats don't want to add "Or a Civil Union" next to the word "Marriage".

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jakee 1,489]

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Every argument you raise can be countered by reversing the affected.

Except it can't, because in the reverse there are no affected.

Allowing gay marriage and calling it marriage has no effect whatsoever on straight marriage or what it is called.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,990]

>It's not just changing a definition . . . its changing what most of the country believes . . .

Gallup May 2013:

"Do you think marriages between same-sex couples should be recognized by the law as valid, with the same rights as traditional marriages?"

Yes - 53%
No - 45%

I think the right wing will no longer be able to deny the will of the people.

[stevebabin 0]

RonD1120

***
Alas, you have not included any mention of WHEN this is going to happen. Do you have the stones to give us a date by which your little prophecy will come to pass?

Nope, don't have a date; just wait and watch. You are smart enough to figure it out as it unfolds.
I am smart enough not to put any stock into anyone's bullshit religious prophecy. Enjoy your wait.(but don't hold your breath...)

"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings."
"Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up."

[turtlespeed 220]

jakee

Quote

Every argument you raise can be countered by reversing the affected.

Except it can't, because in the reverse there are no affected.

Allowing gay marriage and calling it marriage has no effect whatsoever on straight marriage or what it is called.

So, you can read the minds of every straight married couple, and know explicitly what harm has and has not been done. Did you suddenly grow Kallend's clairvoyance/time machine?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[RonD1120 62]

stevebabin

******
Alas, you have not included any mention of WHEN this is going to happen. Do you have the stones to give us a date by which your little prophecy will come to pass?

Nope, don't have a date; just wait and watch. You are smart enough to figure it out as it unfolds.
I am smart enough not to put any stock into anyone's bullshit religious prophecy. Enjoy your wait.(but don't hold your breath...)

Think social trending.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 2,990]

>So, you can read the minds of every straight married couple, and know explicitly what
>harm has and has not been done.

Yep. Same way we read the minds of every same-race couple and knew explicitly that no harm was done by allowing interracial marriage. Even though conservatives whined about that, too.