Was this girl raped?

[normiss 801]

I'm not reaching for anything, just relaying what I have seen in the courts where I live.

I would say it's one of the worst ideas of a man's life to go anywhere near that line.
The one that starts the day after a girl turns 18.
Prior to that, she is trouble.

To each their own I suppose.

[Darius11 12]

I like your answe except this part

Quote

At 16, it's hard for a girl to speak up for herself.

I think when you’re young a lot of things are hard, however I don’t think being a girl makes you less capable. Does it (never been a 16 year-old girl before so I do not know)?

I have an issue with the hypocrisy that often occurs with SOME woman. Your either equal and that comes with all the freedoms and responsibility, or you’re not and need supervision. I like woman to be Equal have all the freedom and all the responsibility and I am really disappointed when I hear the I am a girl excuse.

I think she should know she made a mistake only because she feels regret, I don’t think ANY blame can be given to the guy. We have penises but that doesn’t make all of us evil and manipulative. He probably liked her and was stoked that she liked him back. To say that’s rape is such an insult to woman who have actually been raped. To say oh she is a girl so she couldn’t handle it is in insult to woman. just my .02 on this

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

normiss

I'm not reaching for anything, just relaying what I have seen in the courts where I live.

I would say it's one of the worst ideas of a man's life to go anywhere near that line.
The one that starts the day after a girl turns 18.
Prior to that, she is trouble.

To each their own I suppose.

As a 37 year old I agree yes I get that point.
However when you’re in high school there are plenty of seniors 18 who date freshman or sophomores. Now if they have been dating for a few years I don’t think on the birthday of the 18 year old there love affair becomes rape just because it’s the law.

I think that’s not realizing the reality of human beings. Unless you believe in abstinence till 18 if you do good luck with that. Coming from a Muslim, county that has police with guns to make sure you don’t have pre marital sex, I know that shit does not work.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[normiss 801]

Good luck in court!

[davjohns 1]

normiss

19 vs. 16 = statutory rape.
Yes, she was raped.

I didn't see where it named the state. 16 is common. It's the age of consent in Alabama. Federal Law is 18, but it only applies on federal property. Were they having sex in the Federal Courthouse?

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[davjohns 1]

normiss

In FL, this would easily put the 19 year old young man in the sexual offender program. For life.
Just like the kids that get caught mooning in public - if kids are around, you're gonna register as a sex offender.

Personally, I see this as rape both ways.
She said no, and she was under the legal age to say yes anyway.

YMMV, depending on nationality, where you live, how many cousins you've kissed, etc.

A quick search indicates he is clean. § 794.05 of the Florida Code says it is not Statutory Rape unless the victim is 16 or 17 and the offender is over 24. So, a 16yo can consent to anyone up to 24 years of age. An 18 year old is wide open.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Andy9o8 2]

davjohns

***19 vs. 16 = statutory rape.
Yes, she was raped.

I didn't see where it named the state. 16 is common. It's the age of consent in Alabama. Federal Law is 18, but it only applies on federal property. Were they having sex in the Federal Courthouse?

I've been fucked more than once in Federal Court.

[davjohns 1]

I'm going to have to go with 'no' on this one.

1. She says, "We ended up having sex." That's pretty ambiguous. Did she help take her clothes off? Did she engage in heavy petting? Grinding? Were there signals that she changed her mind from before they started? No idea.

2. She had to ask someone else...then she had to ask another person? It's a hard call from the description given, but it really shouldn't be hard for one of the two people that were there.

3. She explains clearly that she was thinking really hard. She omits what she was doing. What she was doing is REALLY important in this situation.

4. A female at 16 is about on an emotional maturity par with a male of 19. I'm not going to get too wrapped up in the age discussion.

I'm going to side with Nat on this one. There are clearly some feelings going on. The two need to talk.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[davjohns 1]

Andy9o8

******19 vs. 16 = statutory rape.
Yes, she was raped.

I didn't see where it named the state. 16 is common. It's the age of consent in Alabama. Federal Law is 18, but it only applies on federal property. Were they having sex in the Federal Courthouse?

I've been fucked more than once in Federal Court.

Sorry, Andy. You are definitely beyond the age of consent. But since you get paid and the Fucker gets paid, there may be prostitution going on. Of course, if you video it, it's porn and protected by the US Constitution 1st Amendment.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[normiss 801]

That does appear to be correct.

We have had a few cases in recent years in the grey area of 16-18 for the girl with the boy being a year or two ahead of her in age....it's been a confusing area.

I would advise any young man over 18 to stick with young ladies who are as well.

[Bertt 0]

It's not just about age. In some jurisdictions, the 19 year old boy could be in trouble if he is a teacher and the 16 y.o. girl is his student or he has some other authority over her. (could be anything from a track coach to a shift manager at a part time job). If they don't have that hierarchical relationship, the boy could be in the clear.
Can't give an opinion without more details, except to say that if she's not pregnant, she's lucky.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Darius11

...However when you’re in high school there are plenty of seniors 18 who date freshman or sophomores. Now if they have been dating for a few years I don’t think on the birthday of the 18 year old there love affair becomes rape just because it’s the law...

Actually, yes. Depending on state law about "Age of Consent," 2 teens who are in a relationship can go from legal to illegal if one turns 18 and the other is still under.

To make it even stranger, there have been cases of 17 year olds being charged as adults with statutory rape for having sex with another 17 y.o.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Nataly 38]

Darius11

I like your answe except this part

Quote

At 16, it's hard for a girl to speak up for herself.

I think when you’re young a lot of things are hard, however I don’t think being a girl makes you less capable. Does it (never been a 16 year-old girl before so I do not know)?

I have an issue with the hypocrisy that often occurs with SOME woman. Your either equal and that comes with all the freedoms and responsibility, or you’re not and need supervision. I like woman to be Equal have all the freedom and all the responsibility and I am really disappointed when I hear the I am a girl excuse.

I think she should know she made a mistake only because she feels regret, I don’t think ANY blame can be given to the guy. We have penises but that doesn’t make all of us evil and manipulative. He probably liked her and was stoked that she liked him back. To say that’s rape is such an insult to woman who have actually been raped. To say oh she is a girl so she couldn’t handle it is in insult to woman. just my .02 on this

We teach girls to be "nice" so yes it IS tough for a girl (especially a young one) to speak up - a learned behaviour is hard to un-learn. It's not an excuse, it's a reality. Some grown women still struggle to assert themselves.

And the guy DOES have to adjust his "radar" because ge did not clearly read the situation. Making him aware that he should get more "explicit" consent is not going to be a bad thing for him - if anything, it will help avoid future misunderstandings. And girls *like* when a guy has the intelligence to be able to communicate/ask questions, et cetera.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[Darius11 12]

normiss

Good luck in court!

Thank god I got myself a cougar

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

davjohns

***19 vs. 16 = statutory rape.
Yes, she was raped.

I didn't see where it named the state. 16 is common. It's the age of consent in Alabama. Federal Law is 18, but it only applies on federal property. Were they having sex in the Federal Courthouse?

I think someone mentioned this was in Canada the age of consent is 14.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[normiss 801]

Yessir.

Canadia, Kentucky, Tennessee...you're good to go it seems.

[Darius11 12]

Quote

To make it even stranger, there have been cases of 17 year olds being charged as adults with statutory rape for having sex with another 17 y.o.

Wow that's fucking crazy, did they jail both or just the one with the penis? Let me guess the one with the penis is ALWAYS GUILTY

So much hate for men!

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

Quote

And the guy DOES have to adjust his "radar" because ge did not clearly read the situation. Making him aware that he should get more "explicit" consent is not going to be a bad thing for him

I honestly have never asked a woman unless it’s been a long relationship “Hey would you like to have sex now?” It always starts with someone initiating by kissing and it’s been very passionate. I never have stopped in the middle of that to ask for permission. Oh by the way neither did they.
Maybe I have been lucky in my choices I don’t know but I think anyone who has been there and I assume all of us have knows that’s some bull shit expectation to have. Were not mind readers.

I also don’t get how it’s the male’s responsibility only to make sure she is ok with it? If no one used force, drugs and you are a willing percipient I feel like I have done my part. There should be some responsibility at minimum of the person to at least say no, stop, or I don’t want to do that.
I think to ask young men to somehow bare all the responsibility is unfair and unrealistic.

The laws also assume that no woman ever would just say something like that just to hurt a person for whatever reason. In real rape (in my opinion only forced rape is rape, via drugs, gun, whatever) there is evidence.
If you allow a simple I thought or didn’t like it in my mind to be rape that just allows way too much abuse.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[billvon 2,991]

>I honestly have never asked a woman unless it’s been a long relationship “Hey would
>you like to have sex now?” It always starts with someone initiating by kissing and it’s
>been very passionate. I never have stopped in the middle of that to ask for permission.
>Oh by the way neither did they.

That's fine; that's implied rather than explicit consent.

But if you start with kissing, and she says "hey we can kiss but I do NOT want to have sex", and then you have sex anyway without talking about it any more you are in a very gray area. No means no, even if your interpretation is that she really wants to do it anyway. Her explicit statement is a more clear statement of her intentions than your judgment that "she wants it." (She may change her mind of course, but you better be 110% certain that she has.)

[Nataly 38]

billvon

>I honestly have never asked a woman unless it’s been a long relationship “Hey would
>you like to have sex now?” It always starts with someone initiating by kissing and it’s
>been very passionate. I never have stopped in the middle of that to ask for permission.
>Oh by the way neither did they.

That's fine; that's implied rather than explicit consent.

But if you start with kissing, and she says "hey we can kiss but I do NOT want to have sex", and then you have sex anyway without talking about it any more you are in a very gray area. No means no, even if your interpretation is that she really wants to do it anyway. Her explicit statement is a more clear statement of her intentions than your judgment that "she wants it." (She may change her mind of course, but you better be 110% certain that she has.)

Exactly. And Darius11 - I did not say all the "blame" was on the guy. Quite the opposite. To me this is a case where BOTH people need to adjust their behaviour. The girl said clearly what was and wasn't ok. When things progressed, she should have insisted, but the guy should also not have kept pushing without a clearer indication that she had changed her mind. Like Billvon said - it's a gray area. And assuming things is not a great way to go. Men are not mind readers, so women need to speak up. And men should give women an opportunity to do so as well.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[masterrig 1]

Nataly

***>I honestly have never asked a woman unless it’s been a long relationship “Hey would
>you like to have sex now?” It always starts with someone initiating by kissing and it’s
>been very passionate. I never have stopped in the middle of that to ask for permission.
>Oh by the way neither did they.

That's fine; that's implied rather than explicit consent.

But if you start with kissing, and she says "hey we can kiss but I do NOT want to have sex", and then you have sex anyway without talking about it any more you are in a very gray area. No means no, even if your interpretation is that she really wants to do it anyway. Her explicit statement is a more clear statement of her intentions than your judgment that "she wants it." (She may change her mind of course, but you better be 110% certain that she has.)

Exactly. And Darius11 - I did not say all the "blame" was on the guy. Quite the opposite. To me this is a case where BOTH people need to adjust their behaviour. The girl said clearly what was and wasn't ok. When things progressed, she should have insisted, but the guy should also not have kept pushing without a clearer indication that she had changed her mind. Like Billvon said - it's a gray area. And assuming things is not a great way to go. Men are not mind readers, so women need to speak up. And men should give women an opportunity to do so as well.

...and men should realize that when a woman says 'NO' she means "NO'... not yes. That's the time to back-off.


Chuck

[Darius11 12]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/20/elizabeth-coast-rape-lie_n_3784718.html

Quote

Elizabeth Coast's False Rape Claim Leads To 2 Months Jail In Virginia

The guy spends 4 years she gets 2 months Justice!!

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[turtlespeed 220]

Darius11

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/20/elizabeth-coast-rape-lie_n_3784718.html

Quote

Elizabeth Coast's False Rape Claim Leads To 2 Months Jail In Virginia

The guy spends 4 years she gets 2 months Justice!!

System seems a bit gender biased, no?

Hopefully there will be a civil suit and it will include everyone on the original prosecution.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rehmwa 2]

that's a lot of mixed messages in the article

it would have to be defined by the legal definitions of the state

IMHO - although I find the 19 year extremely creepy (at that age taking advantage of a 16 year old is light years from a 29 year old with a 26 year old) - he didn't get any messages to stop. however, at any age, if she was that uncomfortable with it then there were likely clues, so likely he was a complete creep not to notice and stop anyway - call it rape or not, he likely crossed an unreasonable line.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[turtlespeed 220]

rehmwa

that's a lot of mixed messages in the article

it would have to be defined by the legal definitions of the state

IMHO - although I find the 19 year extremely creepy (at that age taking advantage of a 16 year old is light years from a 29 year old with a 26 year old) - he didn't get any messages to stop. however, at any age, if she was that uncomfortable with it then there were likely clues, so likely he was a complete creep not to notice and stop anyway - call it rape or not, he likely crossed an unreasonable line.

16 is emancipation age in several states.

Not sure about VA

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun