More cop thuggery

[grue 1]

normiss

In your own driveway?

I'd have a very hard time "obeying orders" of police on my property for no valid reasons.

I hope he enjoys the shitloads of taxpayer money he's about to get.

cavete terrae.

[normiss 803]

I asked you a simple question.
Until you understand that a question mark at the end of a sentence makes it a question, you're just being silly.

I'm weird because I understand sentence structure?

You have an odd understanding of the word weird.

[kelpdiver 2]

kallend

but I suspect that if we could check the LEO's the average gun owner's history of target practice, we'd see a short coming.

Though the requirements for the average gun owner is much lower than an LEO who doesn't always have the option to do nothing or run, there is a reason why we're seeing this ongoing ammunition shortage, and why ammo is sold by the 1000. There are quite a few people in this forum that shoot far more than the typical LEO.

Well, except in places like Chicago that banned legal ownership entirely, so of course none of them would have any meaningful practice.

[JerryBaumchen 1,367]

Hi normiss,

I've been wondering where Barney Fife was working these days. I see he has been training someone to work with him.



JerryBaumchen

[Rick 67]

Darius11

Quote

He refused to obey commands and lunged at the deputies who fired their weapons 15 times to subdue him, they say.

15 time to subdue him. WTF man he didn't have a gun just shoot the guy in the leg once.

We need to raise our standards on who we let be a cop.

I have lost all respect for them.

Hell it took 15 rounds to hit him twice I don't think they could hit the leg if they were trying.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[champu 1]

Rick

Hell it took 15 rounds to hit him twice I don't think they could hit the leg if they were trying.

"Careful you idiot! I said across his nose, not up it!"

"Sorry Sir... I'm doing my best."

[swisschris62 0]

Studies have also shown that its possible to control heart rate, pulse and breathing in high stress situations.
8 bullets completely missed their target! There's no excuse for this. The cops were lucky no one else was hurt from a bullet gone astray...this time. They should give this cop a desk job ( if that) because a) he can't control himself in a high stress situations and b) he can't aim for shit.

[Kennedy 0]

swisschris62

Studies have also shown that its possible to control heart rate, pulse and breathing in high stress situations.
8 bullets completely missed their target! There's no excuse for this. The cops were lucky no one else was hurt from a bullet gone astray...this time. They should give this cop a desk job ( if that) because a) he can't control himself in a high stress situations and b) he can't aim for shit.

And you come by your expertise how, exactly? Reality is not what you see in movies or on television. Try a line of garbage like that with law enforcement or military personnel, or antone who actually knows what they are talking about, and their opinion of you will match your opinion: in the dumpster.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[swisschris62 0]

Exactly what part of what I said would you be referring to?
If a cop loses it in a high stress situation and can't function properly then maybe police work isn't for him.
Firing 15 shots with 8 of them missing the target isn't good shooting regardless of the situation. Maybe you think this hit/miss percentage is acceptable but clearly someone needs to spend a little more time at the range. Thankfully no one else was hurt with all these bullets flying around.
Btw I wasn't basing my opinion on a movie or a TV show. It's called being a professional and acting accordingly. That didnt happen here from the looks of things.

[FreeFallFiend 0]

Kennedy

***Studies have also shown that its possible to control heart rate, pulse and breathing in high stress situations.
8 bullets completely missed their target! There's no excuse for this. The cops were lucky no one else was hurt from a bullet gone astray...this time. They should give this cop a desk job ( if that) because a) he can't control himself in a high stress situations and b) he can't aim for shit.

And you come by your expertise how, exactly? Reality is not what you see in movies or on television. Try a line of garbage like that with law enforcement or military personnel, or antone who actually knows what they are talking about, and their opinion of you will match your opinion: in the dumpster.

It's Physiology. The full scope of what he is describing gets pretty technical but the core of what he is talking about is arousal sensitivity. (Not sexual arousal.)

Edit to add: It's really no different from BASE jumpers and skydivers reacting instantly in the heat of an emergency. Some people react correctly while others fail miserably.

Fiend

I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark. - Thomas Hobbes.

[masterrig 1]

That cop mighta' done better with a scatter gun than that pistol! I wasn't trying to make excuses for the cop, I was only offering a possibility as to 'why' it took him so many shots. I do have to agree that the cop should've had more 'self-control' than what he did. After all... gun control is hitting your target!

BTW... is that your 'large car' in your avatar? Good lookin' Peter-car!!


Chuck

[Kennedy 0]

Your entire post is flat out wrong. If it is not, point to a study that claims someone in a sudden gunfight can control heartrate, breathing, digestion, pupil dialation, perspiration, and other sympathetic responses. Show a study that suggests auditory blocking, tunnel vision, and other autonomic nervous reactions are somehow instantly controllable. Then tell me how many shooters can be surprised with sudden combat an then hoot with pinpoint accuracy. Hint: even Navy Seals don't claim that kind of supernatural Jedi ability.

I'll be the first to agree with anyone that LEOs and military should have more and better training, but that's a budget issue and worker-comp-liability issue more than anything else.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[swisschris62 0]

Yes sir...98 Pete with 1.5 million on the speedo. Rebuilt the engine at about 800,000. 550 hp with a few other tweaks that'll let me run triple digits with 80,000lb load if I chose to do so. Freight rates are for the most part in the crapper these days so even running the legal 80 mph in states like Texas and Utah can get rather expensive.
Been pulling flats coast to coast for as long as I can remember running 150,000+ miles annually.
Where in NM you at...beautiful state!

[Kennedy 0]

Quote

It's Physiology. The full scope of what he is describing gets pretty technical but the core of what he is talking about is arousal sensitivity. (Not sexual arousal.)

Not everyone is ignorant of the sympathetic nervous system or autonomic responses to stress. I know what he's talking about, he's just wrong.

Quote

Edit to add: It's really no different from BASE jumpers and skydivers reacting instantly in the heat of an emergency. Some people react correctly while others fail miserably.

Incorrect. Skydivers know the emergency procedures, and those are built around gross motor skills. Using a pistol suddenly requires fine motor skills, which are heavily degraded under heavy stress. Also, responding correctly or not is not related to ability to execute that response. Whether the shooting was correct or not is completely separate from the officers's ability to put rounds on target.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[champu 1]

swisschris62

1.5 million on the speedo.

Impressive. You'll pass Voyager 1 before next summer.

[swisschris62 0]

Gun fight?...takes 2 to have a gun fight, in other words...someone shooting back at them.
I agree with you 100% about all the different things going on with a human during a high stress situation. No argument there.
Regardless, you also have to maintain control.
Had one of those stray bullets hit a kid next door would it have been ok to just say, well my heart was beating fast and I was sweating profusely- you know, high stress situation and after all even navy seals can't shoot straight in those situations so I did the best i could. Btw sorry about your kid.
I am not anti law enforcement but if it went down like it was written then the end result was a little over the top and irrational.

[swisschris62 0]

Ignorant?...let me tell you what's ignorant...
What's ignorant is you defending these actions.
I could give 2 shits about gross or fine motor skills...more then half those bullets missed. That's some pretty shitty shooting regardless of the situation.
Aside from the shooting the whole story sounds as if the cops were a little too fast in their reaction, screwed up and now trying to cover their asses.
Btw I don't need you telling me I'm ignorant. I merely stated my opinion. If your differs from mine so be it. Read the article and State yours as you wish and leave me out of it. I don't need you critiquing my opinion...who the hell are you and what makes you the expert?

[swisschris62 0]

At 200g for a new one you best take care of the one you got.
Take care of them right and run them right and they'll last forever.
Company trucks on the other hand are ready for the crusher when they hit 500,000 miles.
Btw...voyager 1 is 18,627,093,170km from earth. I got a few miles to go before I catch up.

[champu 1]

I was musing on the idea of a speedometer reading 1.5 million rather than an odometer reading 1.5 million.

[masterrig 1]

swisschris62

Yes sir...98 Pete with 1.5 million on the speedo. Rebuilt the engine at about 800,000. 550 hp with a few other tweaks that'll let me run triple digits with 80,000lb load if I chose to do so. Freight rates are for the most part in the crapper these days so even running the legal 80 mph in states like Texas and Utah can get rather expensive.
Been pulling flats coast to coast for as long as I can remember running 150,000+ miles annually.
Where in NM you at...beautiful state!

I live about half-way between Odessa and El Paso. Right now, since we've gotten some rain, everything is green. The cows are happy-happy. Enjoying green instead of dead grass.
I would imagine fuel is taking a big bite out of your wallet. Dang, diesel costs more than no-lead. It's ridiculous. During the 70's, 80's and 90's, I drove gravel doubles, propane tankers, fuel tankers, grain doubles and flat-beds.
That ol' girl you're driving is in darned good shape for the miles on her. Well taken care of. Be safe out there and keep the greasy side down!


Chuck

[swisschris62 0]

And I should have caught that...

[swisschris62 0]

Don't fault these guys though...after all they were in the midst of an elevated pulse rate, their pupils were going crazy, oh yeah and they were sweating.
Who can shoot straight under those conditions? Hell even a navy seal would find it hard to hit what their aiming at!!

[kelpdiver 2]

Kennedy

Your entire post is flat out wrong. If it is not, point to a study that claims someone in a sudden gunfight can control heartrate, breathing, digestion, pupil dialation, perspiration, and other sympathetic responses. Show a study that suggests auditory blocking, tunnel vision, and other autonomic nervous reactions are somehow instantly controllable. Then tell me how many shooters can be surprised with sudden combat an then hoot with pinpoint accuracy. Hint: even Navy Seals don't claim that kind of supernatural Jedi ability.

which is why they practice in live fire situations, or why FrontSight does a lot of timed drills. Accuracy when time is irrelevant has value, but it's not enough to just practice that way.

Likewise, you can train against your ability to handle stress. It doesn't prevent the physiological changes you speak of, but it does mitigate them to a degree.

Unless you have knowledge that this guy had extensive experience, I'm going to the gut call that he goes to the range as rarely as permitted.

[Stumpy 284]

champu

***Hell it took 15 rounds to hit him twice I don't think they could hit the leg if they were trying.

"Careful you idiot! I said across his nose, not up it!"

"Sorry Sir... I'm doing my best."



Gone to plaid

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[champu 1]

You make good points, for what they're worth, but it's still bizarre to hear people lamenting the accuracy of shots fired at an unarmed guy next to his own car in his own driveway.

I personally have no problem with a LEO firing several shots (especially with a 9mm) at someone who "lunges at them" in CQB when they can't descern that the person is unarmed. However, much as people worry about what I'll call the "worst-case hypothetical George Zimmerman scenario" where someone picks a fight, starts losing, and then shoots the person, I worry about the police in this situation not "giving the person room for it to be a complete non-event."