Who needs an AR-15???

[rushmc 23]

Stumpy

***I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery any day.

I'm pretty good with peaceful freedom.

If you find it somewhere let us all know

Cause there is no where like this except in peoples minds

Cause freedom is not free

Ben Franklin

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Stumpy

And just to add - if you think carrying will keep you safe, you are kidding yourself anyway. HTH.

Ya
And not carrying a spare tire will keep your tires full of air

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lefty 0]

rushmc

***And just to add - if you think carrying will keep you safe, you are kidding yourself anyway. HTH.

Ya
And not carrying a spare tire will keep your tires full of air

Me me me! And having a sprinkler system won't put out that fire any faster.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

if you think carrying will keep you safe, you are kidding yourself anyway

These women disagree:

http://www.thewellarmedwoman.com/Womens-Stories-Of-Self-Defense-With-A-Gun

The govt seems to disagree:
http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=18319

“Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence [...]. Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.”

"A different issue is whether defensive use of guns, however numerous or rare they may be, are effective in preventing injury to the gun wielding crime victim. Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was “used” by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self protective strategies."

So simply put, the data shows you are wrong.

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

The point being that these "toys" can do some serious damage... More than your average handgun.

And yet the DOJ said that *less than 3%* of crimes are committed with semi auto rifles. While handguns actually are used a lot more.

[Kennedy 0]

Stumpy

And just to add - if you think carrying will keep you safe, you are kidding yourself anyway. HTH.

I won't bore you with personal anecdotes that disprove your theory. Instead, I have a few questions.

Do you say the same thing to folks who buy fire extinguishers?
Do you say the same thing to folks who wear their seat belts?
Do you say the same thing to folks who take emergency medicine classes?
Do you say the same thing to folks who keep pfds on boats?

Just because it won't work in the worst possible scenario, and you might no be able to use it in some scenarios, doesn't mean there's no reason to learn skills or have tools.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[turtlespeed 220]

Kennedy

***And just to add - if you think carrying will keep you safe, you are kidding yourself anyway. HTH.

I won't bore you with personal anecdotes that disprove your theory. Instead, I have a few questions.

Do you say the same thing to folks who buy fire extinguishers?
Do you say the same thing to folks who wear their seat belts?
Do you say the same thing to folks who take emergency medicine classes?
Do you say the same thing to folks who keep pfds on boats?

Just because it won't work in the worst possible scenario, and you might no be able to use it in some scenarios, doesn't mean there's no reason to learn skills or have tools.

I'd like to add:
Should a woman take a personal defense course?
Should ANYONE take a personal defense course?
Should anyone learn and become skilled in martial arts?
Should we not install smoke and fire alarms in our places of residence and work?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[normiss 800]

Just be quiet and do what the nice policeman says.

"STOP RESISTING!"

[DanG 1]

I would amend Stumpy's statement to say, "If you think carrying alone will keep you safe, you're kidding yourself." Carrying can be part of a strategy to remain safe. It shouldn't be the only part. In other words, just because you are carrying, don't think that other choices (like where and when you travel, how you act, your awareness level, etc.) are not also important.

- Dan G

[Kennedy 0]

Now you're making sense. Notice, that his statement implies there's no value in carrying and many extend that to "why not prevent folks from doing it?" Your statement recognizes the value, and can be used to logically refute attempts to infringe on rights.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[DanG 1]

Quote

Now you're making sense.

Now? I've never said anything different. I'm not Stumpy.

- Dan G

[toolbox 0]

Some people might want or need an AR-15 for whatever reason and that is their business.
I do not want nor do I feel the need for an AR-15.
I do however want an M1A as I might need one if social collapse were to occur from natural disasters, or for any number of other reason.
The M1A is chambered for the .308 Winchester round which is very effective at ranges of 600+ yards in expert hands and,I'm sure I could make hits with this weapon at 400 yards myself.
The .308 is very well suited for hunting any big game in north America and,is more than capable for defense against large predators.
I want a full length M1A with six 20 round magazines and,it is within my rights as a law abiding US citizen to have one.

[Skyrad 0]

Nicely said. Don't agree with everything you said but I like the way you said it.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Stumpy 284]

DanG

I would amend Stumpy's statement to say, "If you think carrying alone will keep you safe, you're kidding yourself." Carrying can be part of a strategy to remain safe. It shouldn't be the only part. In other words, just because you are carrying, don't think that other choices (like where and when you travel, how you act, your awareness level, etc.) are not also important.

Correct. And add to this list - Where you live.
Where I live, as I stated before, the chances of me needing a gun for self defence are so VANISHINGLY SMALL, that the added expense, and everything associated simply are not worth it. There is a much higher chance that I will be hit by falling rocks on the road to my house for example.

I have said this before - I am NOT anti gun. I hunt to augment the supermarket, and I enjoy it.
What I am - is anti bullshit argument. If you want to have guns - feel free, I don't care, but don't project your propaganda that everyone needs them. It's crap, and you know it. If you choose to live somewhere where the only way you can feel safe is to carry a gun, that's your choice. I am fortunate enough not to.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Kennedy 0]

What everyone needs is the right to choose for themselves. I think we can agree there, but lots of folks don't want Americans to have that choice.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[dmcoco84 5]

Quote

If you want to have guns - feel free, I don't care, but don't project your propaganda that everyone needs them. It's crap, and you know it.

What?!

And who has said everyone needs guns? I sure haven't...

And, propaganda?

[Stumpy 284]

dmcoco84

Quote

If you want to have guns - feel free, I don't care, but don't project your propaganda that everyone needs them. It's crap, and you know it.

What?!

And who has said everyone needs guns? I sure haven't...

And, propaganda?

comments like this:

"If you find it somewhere let us all know

Cause there is no where like this except in peoples minds "

Not true. There are many many places in the world where you would be more prudent wearing a faraday cage for protection against that lightning strike than carrying a gun. (I know that wasn't you so apologies if it came across that way)

Propaganda - listen to the NRA objectively sometime.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[dmcoco84 5]

Quote

comments like this:

"If you find it somewhere let us all know

Cause there is no where like this except in peoples minds "

uh... huh.

Quote

Not true. There are many many places in the world where you would be more prudent wearing a faraday cage for protection against that lightning strike than carrying a gun.

Dude... that's ridiculous.

Quote

Propaganda - listen to the NRA objectively sometime.

Completely empty statement, and I do...

[dmcoco84 5]

Quote

comments like this:

"If you find it somewhere let us all know

Cause there is no where like this except in peoples minds "

You equate... "there is no such thing as peaceful freedom", toooo, everyone needs a gun?

[Alias 0]

I love my AR - just had to speak up

Carpe Diem

[Stumpy 284]

***
Dude... that's ridiculous.

***

You are right, which is why in those places people don't feel the need to do either of those things.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[skypuppy 1]

Stumpy

***

Quote

If you want to have guns - feel free, I don't care, but don't project your propaganda that everyone needs them. It's crap, and you know it.

What?!

And who has said everyone needs guns? I sure haven't...

And, propaganda?

comments like this:

"If you find it somewhere let us all know

Cause there is no where like this except in peoples minds "

Not true. There are many many places in the world where you would be more prudent wearing a faraday cage for protection against that lightning strike than carrying a gun. (I know that wasn't you so apologies if it came across that way)

Propaganda - listen to the NRA objectively sometime.
you're making stuff up. No one says everyone should be armed, they just want to have the choice to have a weapon of their choice. Many jurisdictions are actively trying to take away those choices.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[skypuppy 1]

Stumpy

Think what you like, but you would be wrong in this case. Where I live the need for a gun in self defense is so vanishingly small that it's not worth the effort. There are a million other things I can do to make my family and myself safer that would be more worthwhile.

Frankly, that is your opinion, and your entitled to have it. However, that doesn't mean your neighbor down the street might not have a different opinion, want a gun, and should be entitled to have one if in his opinion he wants or needs it.

This is the point. You say it is not worth the trouble, but that is an OPINION. It is not necessarily a FACT.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[skypuppy 1]

Nataly

***Personally I hate it more when people create threads but don't want to share their actual opinion, leaving us to guess and then just tell us we're wrong. Seems pointless.

Paradoxically, if nobody has a gun, nobody needs a gun to be safe. If everybody has a gun (and is prepared to use it), everybody needs a gun to be safe (but then no one is really safe). The ideal IMO is to have a balance where people are safe enough not to need a gun, but may have one "just in case" (or just for fun). Some US cities have LOADS of guns/riffles per person and nothing ever happens because people use them only for hunting and/or recreation. Some US slums have an especially high crime rate and you grow up with weapons not to shoot bambi, but to shoot people. One blanket rule for everyone is not going to magically fix all the gun-related problems... The US is a big and diverse country.

If there was a way to really restrict weapons that can be used in a mass shooting, (or keep them out of the hands of people who would commit a mass shooting), personally, I would rather give up some of my fun for the added safety (especially in areas with a high rate of gun-related crimes). But realistically, I don't see any obvious/effective/realistic solutions to achieve this.



Do you really think that mass shootings that you're talking about (with AR15's) are taking place in areas with a high rate of gun-related crimes (which is where you say you would especially want to see these weapons restricted). Do you think your average university was an area with a high rate of gun-related crimes? Or Aurora or Littleton Colorado? Or Newtown?

In general the high profile mass shootings have taken place in middle class or upper middle class areas, I would have thought.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[Bignugget 0]

skypuppy

However, that doesn't mean your neighbor down the street might not have a different opinion, want a gun, and should be entitled to have one if in his opinion he wants or needs it.

Nope.

Your opinion that you get to have some shit that is designed to kill me isn't enough to entitle you to it. Unfortunately many many moons ago some old dudes wrote that you get to have all the means to kill people you can dream up.

Thankfully we have slowed it a bit, but 280 million means later its plowing along.

I want a nuke, I feel I am entitled. Of course that doesn't matter, since weapons capable of killing millions of people are not allowed to be possessed by guys with My Little Pony avatars. And since no old dudes many moons ago wrote down all of us can have nukes, people sat down and thought about it and decided its probably better if we don't allow just any random asshole to have means to kill lots of people.

In all sincerity if you need a gun to be safe in America, what the fuck has happened to America? People are all upset about the "spy state" etc. and how we are all Russian like with Snowden, well fuck we (as a nation) are as violent as Yemen and an entire host of shit hole countries....sweet company. Arguing for more weapons just doesn't seem to fit. Instead of arming the population, lets try a little E.L.E like Jackie Moon proposes.



P.S.

I really do want a nuke, so if anyone has any inside hookups, lemme know. I picture one like in that movie where the dude rides it in, that's the kind I want.

P.P.S (P.S.S?)

If the NSA is reading this shit, I don't really want a nuke, but I heard Gravitymaster does!