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rushmc

Government and Obama say fuck the lae and courts

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again

Quote

NSA Program Secretly Ruled Unconstitutional in 2011



Ya John
We know
It is Bush's fault

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/nsa-program-ruled-unconstitutional/2013/08/21/id/521597
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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rushmc

again

Quote

NSA Program Secretly Ruled Unconstitutional in 2011



Ya John
We know
It is Bush's fault

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/nsa-program-ruled-unconstitutional/2013/08/21/id/521597



If you read the details you would see that the law ruled unconstitutional was signed by GWB.

From the article in your link:

"The information had been collected since at least 2006, Bates said in the opinion."

Facts can be SO inconvenient.
...

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so both presidents fucked up.

Why are you such an Obamapologist?

Yeah, Bush signed it. It was found unconstitutional on Obama's watch. He should have had it dismantled. Instead, he CHOSE to continue an unconstitutional program.
--
Rob

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rhaig

so both presidents fucked up.

Why are you such an Obamapologist?

Yeah, Bush signed it. It was found unconstitutional on Obama's watch. He should have had it dismantled. Instead, he CHOSE to continue an unconstitutional program.



I'm not. I think the warrantless surveillance is disgusting.

The FACT remains that the unConstitutional activity that rushmc so gleefully reported began under Bush, and the law enabling it was signed by GWB. The process was discontinued so far as we know in 2011 when BHO was president.

Why are you such a Bush apologist?
...

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kallend

***so both presidents fucked up.

Why are you such an Obamapologist?

Yeah, Bush signed it. It was found unconstitutional on Obama's watch. He should have had it dismantled. Instead, he CHOSE to continue an unconstitutional program.



I'm not. I think the warrantless surveillance is disgusting.

The FACT remains that the unConstitutional activity that rushmc so gleefully reported began under Bush, and the law enabling it was signed by GWB. The process was discontinued so far as we know in 2011 when BHO was president.

Why are you such a Bush apologist?

obviously when the act was signed into law, it would have been assumed to be constitutional. Then it had to go to court, where it was indeed found to be UN constitutional. At which point, it should have been repealed.

That is obama's responsibility, and he has failed.
If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

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skypuppy

obviously when the act was signed into law, it would have been assumed to be constitutional. Then it had to go to court, where it was indeed found to be UN constitutional. At which point, it should have been repealed.

That is obama's responsibility, and he has failed.



This

But you have to understand - some here would still defend him if he was Charles Manson.[:/]
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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Stumpy

And a whole load of others would vilify him if he cured cancer single handedly. So it all balances out.



And if he actually directly was a carcinogen, they would still defend him.

Not saying he's NOT, well not figuratively a cancer for this country . . . BUT . . .:D
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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kallend

***again

Quote

NSA Program Secretly Ruled Unconstitutional in 2011



Ya John
We know
It is Bush's fault

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/nsa-program-ruled-unconstitutional/2013/08/21/id/521597


If you read the details you would see that the law ruled unconstitutional was signed by GWB.

From the article in your link:

"The information had been collected since at least 2006, Bates said in the opinion."

Facts can be SO inconvenient.

So Bush was in office in 2011 and kept the program going
Now that is a FACT i did not know

Now I see why it is Bush saying fuck the law and the courts
Thanks for the facts kallend:S
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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rushmc

******again

Quote

NSA Program Secretly Ruled Unconstitutional in 2011



Ya John
We know
It is Bush's fault

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/nsa-program-ruled-unconstitutional/2013/08/21/id/521597


If you read the details you would see that the law ruled unconstitutional was signed by GWB.

From the article in your link:

"The information had been collected since at least 2006, Bates said in the opinion."

Facts can be SO inconvenient.

So Bush was in office in 2011 and kept the program going
Now that is a FACT i did not know

:S

Well, you wrote that, I didn't.

Seems you need a new source for your facts.
...

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skypuppy

******so both presidents fucked up.

Why are you such an Obamapologist?

Yeah, Bush signed it. It was found unconstitutional on Obama's watch. He should have had it dismantled. Instead, he CHOSE to continue an unconstitutional program.



I'm not. I think the warrantless surveillance is disgusting.

The FACT remains that the unConstitutional activity that rushmc so gleefully reported began under Bush, and the law enabling it was signed by GWB. The process was discontinued so far as we know in 2011 when BHO was president.

Why are you such a Bush apologist?

obviously when the act was signed into law, it would have been assumed to be constitutional. Then it had to go to court, where it was indeed found to be UN constitutional. At which point, it should have been repealed.

That is obama's responsibility, and he has failed.

Presidents can't repeal Acts of Congress.

Jeez!
...

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kallend

*********so both presidents fucked up.

Why are you such an Obamapologist?

Yeah, Bush signed it. It was found unconstitutional on Obama's watch. He should have had it dismantled. Instead, he CHOSE to continue an unconstitutional program.



I'm not. I think the warrantless surveillance is disgusting.

The FACT remains that the unConstitutional activity that rushmc so gleefully reported began under Bush, and the law enabling it was signed by GWB. The process was discontinued so far as we know in 2011 when BHO was president.

Why are you such a Bush apologist?

obviously when the act was signed into law, it would have been assumed to be constitutional. Then it had to go to court, where it was indeed found to be UN constitutional. At which point, it should have been repealed.

That is obama's responsibility, and he has failed.

Presidents can't repeal Acts of Congress.

Jeez!

And it is ok for a President you support to ignore court rullings if they dont like said ruling

got it

I will give you one thing
When it comes to Obama you are nothing if not consistant
I will bet you make yourself proud:D
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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rushmc

************so both presidents fucked up.

Why are you such an Obamapologist?

Yeah, Bush signed it. It was found unconstitutional on Obama's watch. He should have had it dismantled. Instead, he CHOSE to continue an unconstitutional program.



I'm not. I think the warrantless surveillance is disgusting.

The FACT remains that the unConstitutional activity that rushmc so gleefully reported began under Bush, and the law enabling it was signed by GWB. The process was discontinued so far as we know in 2011 when BHO was president.

Why are you such a Bush apologist?

obviously when the act was signed into law, it would have been assumed to be constitutional. Then it had to go to court, where it was indeed found to be UN constitutional. At which point, it should have been repealed.

That is obama's responsibility, and he has failed.

Presidents can't repeal Acts of Congress.

Jeez!

And it is ok for a President you support to ignore court rullings if they dont like said ruling

got it

I will give you one thing
When it comes to Obama you are nothing if not consistant
I will bet you make yourself proud:D

Has he ignored the ruling? Where is your evidence of that?

And please enlighten us on the Constitutional process by which a President can repeal an Act of Congress.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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skypuppy

******so both presidents fucked up.

Why are you such an Obamapologist?

Yeah, Bush signed it. It was found unconstitutional on Obama's watch. He should have had it dismantled. Instead, he CHOSE to continue an unconstitutional program.



I'm not. I think the warrantless surveillance is disgusting.

The FACT remains that the unConstitutional activity that rushmc so gleefully reported began under Bush, and the law enabling it was signed by GWB. The process was discontinued so far as we know in 2011 when BHO was president.

Why are you such a Bush apologist?

obviously when the act was signed into law, it would have been assumed to be constitutional. Then it had to go to court, where it was indeed found to be UN constitutional. At which point, it should have been repealed.

That is obama's responsibility, and he has failed.

I believe that the President busily defended the programs for a while. Wasn't it just a couple of months ago when he was telling Jay Leno that he doubted how useful the spying was until he saw the amount of shit the domestic spying program dug up? He pointed to the Boston bombing as a success.

Only in the last week or so has the President changed course. Politically. He promised more oversight and transparency and constraint. Nothing in particular.

And yes, the President is in a catch-22. If the POTUS keeps it up, then plenty of GOPers (and lots of Democrats, too) will lambaste him on 4th Amendment and privacy. If he loosens the secrecy, then the GOP will hammer him on security (in the wake of Benghazi, plenty of ammo there).

The President can afford to fuck over the 4th Amendment. He'll have people - as seen on here - that won't hold it against him because it's another thing that Bush stuck him with. The GOP House (and the Senate leadership - but not the rank and file) dig the power that they have with this NSA stuff.

So don't expect any changes. The President would rather piss off people in his own party who would choose Satan (D) over Saint (R) any day. Not that Republicans are any different.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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Yet the article says that the NSA and Justice Dept are the ones who brought this problem to the FISA court, and that NSA changed procedures a month after the ruling.


"A month after the foreign intelligence surveillance court's ruling, the NSA revised its collection procedures to separate the transactions most likely to contain the communications of Americans."

How is Obama saying fuck the law then?

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/nsa-program-ruled-unconstitutional/2013/08/21/id/521597#ixzz2ciiqNbOa
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rushmc

************so both presidents fucked up.

Why are you such an Obamapologist?

Yeah, Bush signed it. It was found unconstitutional on Obama's watch. He should have had it dismantled. Instead, he CHOSE to continue an unconstitutional program.



I'm not. I think the warrantless surveillance is disgusting.

The FACT remains that the unConstitutional activity that rushmc so gleefully reported began under Bush, and the law enabling it was signed by GWB. The process was discontinued so far as we know in 2011 when BHO was president.

Why are you such a Bush apologist?

obviously when the act was signed into law, it would have been assumed to be constitutional. Then it had to go to court, where it was indeed found to be UN constitutional. At which point, it should have been repealed.

That is obama's responsibility, and he has failed.

Presidents can't repeal Acts of Congress.

Jeez!

And it is ok for a President you support to ignore court rullings if they dont like said ruling

got it

I will give you one thing
When it comes to Obama you are nothing if not consistant
I will bet you make yourself proud:D

BUMP.

Has he ignored the ruling? Where is your evidence of that?

And please enlighten us on the Constitutional process by which a President can repeal an Act of Congress.
...

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[Reply]Yet the article says that the NSA and Justice Dept are the ones who brought this problem to the FISA court, and that NSA changed procedures a month after the ruling.


"A month after the foreign intelligence surveillance court's ruling, the NSA revised its collection procedures to separate the transactions most likely to contain the communications of Americans."

How is Obama saying fuck the law then?



Because it's STILL doing warrantless searches of American communications. The very act of screening communications means searching it for words, etc. That the communications are being sifted constitutes a search. The NSA even admitted that there's no way to avoid having protected communications involved. Thus it per se infringes on the 4th Amendment.

The government says that if we want to catch the tuna some dolphins are going to get nailed.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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[Reply]And please enlighten us on the Constitutional process by which a President can repeal an Act of Congress.



By vetoing the reauthorizations of the Acts of Congress. Which he hasn't done. He signed reauthorization of section 215 in 2011.

Because he likes it.


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lawrocket

[Reply]And please enlighten us on the Constitutional process by which a President can repeal an Act of Congress.



By vetoing the reauthorizations of the Acts of Congress. Which he hasn't done. He signed reauthorization of section 215 in 2011.

Because he likes it.



Is that a "repeal"?
...

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Yes. It would have been repealed on its own terms by sunset date unless "renewed." Barring affirmative action by the President, section 215 would have expired. Or been sent to the Senate (who had the votes to override.)

Clinton would have vetoed it and let the Congress override it, giving hm the ability to blame Congress. The President has lobbied FOR it.

And note, the POTUS has a pretty good history of not enforcing laws he doesn't like and not defending laws he doesn't like. But he's defending this one.


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Where does it mention that the communications are being screened? In fact, the articles says the opposite

"The officials said the bulk of the information was never accessed or analyzed."

The article also goes on to say that the data was deleted soon after.
I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

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[Reply]
"The officials said



Because NSA officials can be trusted that they'd admit it if they did something improper.
[Reply]the bulk of the information was never accessed or analyzed."



They've said, "oops. We illegally collected 56k emails per year for the last decade." That's a half a million.

Estimates are around 300 million e-mails are sent in the US every day.
I read somewhere that the most the NSA can sort through in a day is 6%. Can't remember where I read it. Here's where it gets interesting: that's 18 million per day. 126 million per week. That's 6.57 BILLION per year.

That isn't chump change. Assuming 1 percent of those are illegally obtained, that's a HUGE number.

Rights are dignitary in nature. It's stop and frisk of e-mails.


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lawrocket

Yes. It would have been repealed on its own terms by sunset date unless "renewed." Barring affirmative action by the President, section 215 would have expired. Or been sent to the Senate (who had the votes to override.)

Clinton would have vetoed it and let the Congress override it, giving hm the ability to blame Congress. The President has lobbied FOR it.

And note, the POTUS has a pretty good history of not enforcing laws he doesn't like and not defending laws he doesn't like. But he's defending this one.



My legal dictionary doesn't call that a "repeal". It says: The Annulment or abrogation of a previously existing statute by the enactment of a later law that revokes the former law.

So did the renewal contain the provisions found by the secret court to be unConstitutional?

And please be aware, I think the existence of a secret court is ipso facto obnoxious and contrary the the traditions of Anglo-American justice. Reminiscent of the Star Chamber if you ask me.
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lawrocket

[Reply]
"The officials said



Because NSA officials can be trusted that they'd admit it if they did something improper.
[Reply]the bulk of the information was never accessed or analyzed."



They've said, "oops. We illegally collected 56k emails per year for the last decade." That's a half a million.

Estimates are around 300 million e-mails are sent in the US every day.
I read somewhere that the most the NSA can sort through in a day is 6%. Can't remember where I read it. Here's where it gets interesting: that's 18 million per day. 126 million per week. That's 6.57 BILLION per year.

That isn't chump change. Assuming 1 percent of those are illegally obtained, that's a HUGE number.

Rights are dignitary in nature. It's stop and frisk of e-mails.



And from the NEWSMAX article (a publication generally hostile to BHO): "As soon as the extent of the problem became clear, the officials said, the Obama administration provided classified briefings to both Senate and House intelligence committees within days."

So we have a mess of Bush's making, and when the mess became apparent, the Obama administration moved quickly to brief the Congress which DID have the power to repeal.
...

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