War with Syria

[kelpdiver 2]

Nelyubin

. Remember names of recent Nobel prize winners on economy and laugh together with me. You aren't able to eat the green candy wrappers. Think why you got into Syria. Behind candy wrappers? No. Behind natural resources. You simply don't have them.

Actually, the US is in much better shape than Russia, which is basically a banana republic based on oil as its primary resource. A key reason why the Cold War ended as it did. (that and fucking over your people only works for so long, and never works well for productivity) It's really bad having nearly half your economy based on such a volatile commodity.

For better or worse, fracking will make the US a net exporter of energy products (primarily natural gas) in the near future. Meanwhile, the gays will cause the collapse of Russian society. And so will end your nationalist pride as you're force to wear rainbow colored, puffy pirate shirts.

[Channman 2]

Darius11

Just curios as to what he dz.com crowd thinks.

I say stay the fuck out of it.

Yep, stay out of it. They are doing a pretty good job of killing each other off. There is no need for us to enter and get between both sides that hate us and they start killing us off.

Also I hear the number killed is somewhere North of 100,000. Why now, why a Red Line? Our government seemed to be fine with the methods they were using to kill each other and we saw no need to intervene. Now with Chemical Weapons?...Oh hell NO...that is a Red Line Damnit...any other method is OK, but not chemical weapons.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Yup, didn't seem too concerned with Darfur and Rwanda. I guess it's OK as long as they are just hacking each other to death with machetes.

[quade 4]

Gravitymaster

Yup, didn't seem too concerned with Darfur and Rwanda. I guess it's OK as long as they are just hacking each other to death with machetes.

Well, actually, yes.

NBC warfare is far beyond the "normal" hideousness of human aggression. That's the entire point of why it's outlawed internationally.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gravitymaster 0]

quade

***Yup, didn't seem too concerned with Darfur and Rwanda. I guess it's OK as long as they are just hacking each other to death with machetes.

Well, actually, yes.

NBC warfare is far beyond the "normal" hideousness of human aggression. That's the entire point of why it's outlawed internationally.

Right, I forgot. The outrage isn't that people are dying en masse. It's HOW they are being slaughtered that's important.

Dead is dead.

[quade 4]

Gravitymaster

Right, I forgot. The outrage isn't that people are dying en masse. It's HOW they are being slaughtered that's important.

Well, actually, it is.

The issue is we (the world) had warned Syria NBC warfare would not be tolerated. The issue is, we now know with what appears to be a very high degree of certainty that he used sarin and it killed over a thousand people including over 400 innocent children.

If we turn our backs on that behavior, then we allow the next country to do it and the next and the one after that.

It is unacceptable.

Exactly how we stop it is a big question, but we absolutely have to respond in a way that demonstrates our commitment to not allow the behavior to continue.

Personally, I'm all in favor of revoking EO12333 and bombing the shit out of Assad's homes.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mattjw916 2]

Quote

revoking EO12333

well we're already tearing up the constitution, spying on citizens, etc... let's just start overtly doing it and form some death squads too while we are at it! brilliant!!!

what could possibly go wrong?

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[billvon 2,991]

>The issue is we (the world) had warned Syria NBC warfare would not be tolerated. The
>issue is, we now know with what appears to be a very high degree of certainty that he
>used sarin and it killed over a thousand people including over 400 innocent children.

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Assad has used weapons of mass destruction."

This is sounding more and more familiar.

[quade 4]

mattjw916

Quote

revoking EO12333

well we're already tearing up the constitution, spying on citizens, etc... let's just start overtly doing it and form some death squads too while we are at it! brilliant!!!

what could possibly go wrong?

Do you have any idea what EO12333 is, why and who put it in place and how many "death squads" the US had prior to its signing?

BTW, even without revoking EO12333, our "death squads" today are FAR more effective. Yes, we already have them. We just call them something different.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mattjw916 2]

okay Comrade Stalin...

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[quade 4]

mattjw916

okay Comrade Stalin...

Right. Because obviously the US has no capabilities to do this. It's only the old Stalinist commies who have trained special forces troops ready to kill on command. Right.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[grue 1]

quade

The issue is we (the world) had warned Syria NBC warfare would not be tolerated. The issue is, we now know with what appears to be a very high degree of certainty that he used sarin and it killed over a thousand people including over 400 innocent children.

I really resent this sort of emotional manipulation. They are no more important than anyone else who died.

cavete terrae.

[mattjw916 2]

...and no one would bat an eye if a deuce-and-a-half full of fertilizer and diesel did the same job

this about sums it up: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/syria

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[quade 4]

I didn't say they were "more important."

I said, "including over 400 innocent children."

Some have claimed this is purely a civil war issue between two factions of combatants. For the most part, children attending schools aren't combatants.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

mattjw916

...and no one would bat an eye if a deuce-and-a-half full of fertilizer and diesel did the same job

Considering the OKC bombing, I think your statement is beyond reprehensible.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[grue 1]

quade

I didn't say they were "more important."

I said, "including over 400 innocent children."

Some have claimed this is purely a civil war issue between two factions of combatants. For the most part, children attending schools aren't combatants.

True enough but saying "including amount of noncombatants" would serve the same purpose without getting the "OMG SAVE ALL CHILDREN" types riled up.

cavete terrae.

[lawrocket 3]

quade

***Yup, didn't seem too concerned with Darfur and Rwanda. I guess it's OK as long as they are just hacking each other to death with machetes.

Well, actually, yes.

NBC warfare is far beyond the "normal" hideousness of human aggression. That's the entire point of why it's outlawed internationally.

And an attack by the US on Syria is also illegal because it is not in self defense and sure as hell won't be approved by the Security Council.

[Url]http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/un/unchart.htm#art2[/url]

See Paragraph 4 of Article 2.
[Quote]All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

Scroll down or click here for Article 51. [Url]http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/un/unchart.htm#art51[/url]

[Quote]
Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[quade 4]

Quote

...and sure as hell won't be approved by the Security Council.

At this point, this is pure speculation on your part.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[shropshire 0]

lawrocket

"But lawrocket," you may say. "You want Congressional approval and swift action. Congress isn't going to vote until next week." To which I respond, "FDR called a session and sought a Declaration of War on December 8, 1941 - the day after Pearl Harbor.".

Actually 'they' sat on the fence then too .... accumulated loads of splinters (and Dollar$) from 39 - 41

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Gravitymaster 0]

How do you know the Assad Government is the one responsible?
Why isn't anyone asking where he supposedly got these chemical weapons from?

[shropshire 0]

RobertMBlevins

Assad pulled the trigger on those weapons and is now nothing but another mass murderer. .

So you know this how exactly?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Bignugget 0]

ianmdrennan

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

I find the idea of the international community tolerating chemical attacks abhorable and the message it sends is disgusting. That said, we open a whole different can of worms with a strike.

Situation just blows all around

But that is what the UN is for.

To decide what is and is not internationally acceptable.

I voted stay the fuck out of it.

Spend the time and money fixing America, lets Syrians kill each other, I want better shit here.

Pretty much the same idea every other country had.

[Gravitymaster 0]

shropshire

*** Assad pulled the trigger on those weapons and is now nothing but another mass murderer. .

So you know this how exactly?

Obama said so.

[yoink 321]

quade

***Yup, didn't seem too concerned with Darfur and Rwanda. I guess it's OK as long as they are just hacking each other to death with machetes.

Well, actually, yes.

NBC warfare is far beyond the "normal" hideousness of human aggression. That's the entire point of why it's outlawed internationally. - by 98% of the world.


But technically I think the OCPW only requires member states to aid other member states in the event of a chemical attack and Syria is not one of the members...

There's the loophole.

[yoink 321]

Gravitymaster

Why isn't anyone asking where he supposedly got these chemical weapons from?

Because it doesn't matter where he got them. Having them isn't an issue. Using them is.

However, I think the government does need to be much more open about the 'evidence' it's using as justification to the public.
'We said we were going to do it. Here's the reason we're doing it, and here's the evidence...' Not just 'Assad did it, trust us.'