War with Syria

[winsor 236]

SkyDekker

Quote

My primary concern at this point is the international perspective on the US at this point.

Interesting. 10 years or so agaon, when that primary concern was raised the answer tended to be:

Fuck the rest of the world and what they think.

Perhaps, but there were rather a few of us who considered it to be insanity defined. You know, doing the same thing and expecting different results and all.

I know rather a few people on the high end of the IQ scale who did not think it through very well, for reasons I can only guess. When I ticked off a list of very serious negatives that were sure to come of our adventure in the sandbox, they came up with remarkably lame counters to my arguments.

I wish I had been wrong.

Actually, I wish we had seen fit to do most anything besides invading. Talk about leading with your chin...

After we 'liberated' Iraq, I was reminded of the finale of 'The Candidate,' in which the newly elected Senator (Robert Redford) turned to his campaign manager (Peter Boyle) and said "what do I do now?"

As Philip Seymour Hoffman's character noted at the end of 'Charlie Wilson's War,' "we fucked up the end game." Would that life did not so often imitate art.

Anyhow, there were rather a few of us that saw just what was coming when everyone was waving the flags, sounding the horns and beating the drums.

I wish I'd been wrong.


BSBD,

Winsor

[masterblaster72 0]

John Kerry Costs U.S. Defense Industry $400 Billion

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[airdvr 210]

SkyDekker

Quote

My primary concern at this point is the international perspective on the US at this point.

Interesting. 10 years or so agaon, when that primary concern was raised the answer tended to be:

Fuck the rest of the world and what they think.

That's only because you want to revise history. 2 years after 911 the mood was very different.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[airdvr 210]

U.S., Russia agree to framework on Syria chemical weapons
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/14/politics/us-syria/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Under the resolution, progress on eliminating Syria's chemical weapons will be kept under review and, "in the event of non-compliance ... the UN Security Council should impose measures under Chapter VII of the UN Charter."
Chapter 7 of the U.N. charter leaves open the possibility for the Security Council to consider the use of force if Syria fails to comply, but Russia, which has veto power on the council, is unlikely to agree to that. Other options include the use of sanctions.

Hmmm...this sounds so familiar. Where have I heard this before?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[quade 4]

Quote

U.N.: Syrian chemical attack 'unequivocally and objectively' confirmed
By Carol J. Williams
September 16, 2013, 10:34 a.m.
U.N. inspectors found "clear and convincing evidence" that sarin gas was used to attack rebel-held suburbs of the Syrian capital on Aug. 21 in violation of international law, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon reported Monday.

"This act is a war crime," Ban said in a statement to the U.N. Security Council accompanying the inspectors' report.

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-syria-un-inspectors-chemical-weapons-confirmed-20130916,0,5441189.story

So, the folks who wanted independent UN confirmation -- there it is.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[normiss 801]

Sweet.
Now war crime charges next?

How uncomfortably funny would it be to find "Made in Iraq" on the casings???

[kelpdiver 2]

quade

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-syria-un-inspectors-chemical-weapons-confirmed-20130916,0,5441189.story

So, the folks who wanted independent UN confirmation -- there it is.

not really. Your own citation:

"The inspectors were not tasked with determining which side used the banned chemical agents. Assad has denied the accusations that his forces deployed the poison gas, claiming it was done by the rebels to draw Western support to their side."

(Doesn't it seem silly not to have tasked them with this?)

And further down:
"Commission Chairman Paulo Sergio Pinheiro said investigators have found evidence of war crimes committed by both Assad's forces and rebel groups, but that accusations of crimes against humanity are likely to be leveled only at the Damascus government because the rebels lack "a clear chain of command.""

So really all the UN inspectors concluded is that we have bad people all around. Queue up the Russian veto in 5, 4, 3 .... (and the Chinese won't be far behind - 'we reserve the sovereign right to slaughter anything that moves within our territory')

And if the reason the rebels can be excused is the unclear chain of command, then I tend to agree with Putin. Is Bullshit!

[normiss 801]

So long as veto power exists, the UN can really do nothing more than those big bad sanctions.
It's all just mental masturbation anyway.

[billvon 2,991]

>So long as veto power exists, the UN can really do nothing more than those big bad
>sanctions.

O the horror of limited government.

[normiss 801]

Why do you love the cold war?

[billvon 2,991]

>Why do you love the cold war?

Same reason I love grabbing guns - and same reason I hate kittens and children, I guess.

[normiss 801]

Fair enough.

However, if 'limited government" is what this is and it's ok, then simply doing nothing is ok too.
'limited involvement'.

[kelpdiver 2]

normiss

So long as veto power exists, the UN can really do nothing more than those big bad sanctions.

A more clear cut finding from the UN - might have made it difficult for Putin to explain away a veto. Right now he's got both the uncertainty of who did it, as well as the finding that both sides are guilty (which further supports the defense that it was all rebel scum).

[ndege 0]

Perhaps you would like to give some specifics rather than a vague generalization. Please no WW11 references as that was, at least to most people, a joint effort by many Nations

[normiss 801]

There's been eleven of them.
Sweet baby jebus.
I missed a few.

[OHCHUTE 0]

masterblaster72

John Kerry Costs U.S. Defense Industry $400 Billion

Kerry, and others, shorted his LM stock right before he opened his mouth too. It's all about the money, personal stocks and insider trading.

[OHCHUTE 0]

billvon

>Why do you love the cold war?

Same reason I love grabbing guns - and same reason I hate kittens and children, I guess.

I could see hating kittens, but hating children for the same reason you want to grab guns? If guns kill a lot of kids why wouldn't you like guns?
See how easy slicing and dicing is...

[Andy9o8 2]

OHCHUTE

***
John Kerry Costs U.S. Defense Industry $400 Billion

Kerry, and others, shorted his LM stock right before he opened his mouth too. It's all about the money, personal stocks and insider trading.

Take another look at the source.

[turtlespeed 220]

billvon

>So long as veto power exists, the UN can really do nothing more than those big bad
>sanctions.

O the horror of limited government.

How many died due to chem weaps?

oh are you FOR that?

Oops , my bad

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Stumpy 284]

Andy9o8

******
John Kerry Costs U.S. Defense Industry $400 Billion

Kerry, and others, shorted his LM stock right before he opened his mouth too. It's all about the money, personal stocks and insider trading.

Take another look at the source.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[rushmc 23]

quade

Quote

U.N.: Syrian chemical attack 'unequivocally and objectively' confirmed
By Carol J. Williams
September 16, 2013, 10:34 a.m.
U.N. inspectors found "clear and convincing evidence" that sarin gas was used to attack rebel-held suburbs of the Syrian capital on Aug. 21 in violation of international law, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon reported Monday.

"This act is a war crime," Ban said in a statement to the U.N. Security Council accompanying the inspectors' report.

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-syria-un-inspectors-chemical-weapons-confirmed-20130916,0,5441189.story

So, the folks who wanted independent UN confirmation -- there it is.

Yep, that sarin was used but
They do not state WHO used it

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2381bc86-1eba-11e3-b80b-00144feab7de.html#axzz2f9U0V2om

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

billvon

O the horror of limited government.

I wish you had the same sentiment about the US government

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln