War with Syria

[SkyDekker 1,465]

beowulf

Yeah,

I can see the US attacking Syria and then getting dragged into a long drawn out war. It's like any fight... "Everyone has a plan till you get punched in the mouth."

It wouldn't surprise me if this triggered WW3. US bombs Syria so Iran and Syria attack Israel. Israel retaliates against Syria and Iran.. All out ground and air war starts and drags the US in to help out Israel. Russian gets more involved.. Soon half the world is participating in killing people in the middle east.

I think the US will posture a lot, but will do nothing.

Then the calls for increased funding will get louder and louder. Those calls have already started. End result is no action taken, but significantly increased funding for "defence".

[rushmc 23]

beowulf

It seems that Saudi Arabia is the country that want's the US to attack Syria the most.

+1


But, why does this admin want to get into this, this deep?

Something is still missing

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[beowulf 1]

Never underestimate the stupidity of politicians. The US may just posture, but it wouldn't surprise me if they attack Syria.

[turtlespeed 220]

ianmdrennan

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

I find the idea of the international community tolerating chemical attacks abhorable and the message it sends is disgusting. That said, we open a whole different can of worms with a strike.

Situation just blows all around

We have already been called weak . . . so we are weak if we don't do anything, and tyrannical if we do.

Our best bet is to wash our hands of it it and hand it directly, and unerringly into the hands of the UN.

let the power hungry corrupt of THAT organization do their job for a change.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Nelyubin 0]

And what your country can?
Were trashed in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq. Yes everywhere.
In Syria military base of Russia. Try to be put.

[Darius11 12]

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Not saying anything but, who gains what, if we do set the missles lose?

All i know is we get nothing, so stay out of ot

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Andy9o8 2]

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In Syria military base of Russia.

Is first target go boom.

[GeorgiaDon 362]

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In Syria military base of Russia. Try to be put.

All your base are belong to us!

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Nelyubin 0]

Andy9o8

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In Syria military base of Russia.

Is first target go boom.

Truth? Your president was already trashed.
Let's look. Not long it was necessary to wait.
To say lies, it not to fight.

[Gravitymaster 0]

president go boom two.

[Nelyubin 0]

GeorgiaDon

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In Syria military base of Russia. Try to be put.

All your base are belong to us!

USA one of the largest debtors of Russia. Don't create children's illusions.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Foreign_Holders_of_United_States_Treasury_Securities.svg?uselang=ru

[melch 1]

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***Blair

pssst. Cameron.

Wow, I'm retarded, was having flash backs to early 2000s. Promise I knew it was Cameron seeing as Tony has been out for a while now.

The problem with waiting on the UN is that on the Security Council there are 2 permanent members who have veto Power (Russia & China) who will quickly veto any military action by the UN. Russia has to much invested economically and military (Mediterranean Naval Bases) to allow the US to use the UN as a way to to take action. Our best bet is a coalition through NATO.

Someone mentioned that the stuff has already been moved and that we will make rubble out of rubble. If you think that our intelligence agencies do not have A) signals, imagery, a number of other technical based intelligence B) human intelligence from informants and agents on the ground then I would say you are naive my friend. They collected vast amounts of information from citizens they didn't even give a shit about just think about what they can do when it actually matters, will affect US foreign policy and has some severe consequences.

There is a long way between war and taking action. Check out Libya and even more recently in Mali. US involvement with military action but we are not in a protracted war there are we? No.

[melch 1]

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USA one of the largest debtors of Russia. There are no illusions.

One of the greatest misconceptions ever. I love when people argue that China and Russia will run our country because they are buying all of our debt. In truth if something ever did go down between Russia or China and the US we would flip you the bird and say we don't owe you shit and greately damage your banking economy...thanks for investing hundreds of biillions of dollars in our country for free. I'll have to do some rereading and pull up some old research that I did on this a while back to find the technical terms and economic principles that guide my argument.

[Nelyubin 0]

. Remember names of recent Nobel prize winners on economy and laugh together with me. You aren't able to eat the green candy wrappers. Think why you got into Syria. Behind candy wrappers? No. Behind natural resources. You simply don't have them.

[mattjw916 2]

My real concern with regard to that is our govt's current penchant for hardcore deficit spending. It's hard to do that when no one will buy your treasury notes, bonds, etc because you aren't making your coupon payments on the debt. This would tank our credit rating and potentially cause a slowdown in the world economy (hurting other countries more than us in the long-term). It's really in no one's best interest to cause a world-wide recession/depression so I really don't see any of that happening.

In a complete SHTF scenario the US would just start peddling war bonds again and fire up the propaganda machine to sell them to the American public IMO. After all, it worked pretty damn well in the 40s.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[mattjw916 2]

I'm sure something is being lost in translation here but I'm not sure what it is.

The US is massive and has huge untapped reserves of all kinds of "resources". The hippies are just worried about us killing butterflies and such plus it's cheaper to strip mine someone else's poor country rather than our own most of the time. When people begin starving that would all change very fast.

I don't really see any tangible benefit to intervening in Syria one way or the other.

Even "Joshua" knew that sometimes the only winning move is not to play.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[rushmc 23]

mattjw916

Even "Joshua" knew that sometimes the only winning move is not to play.

Classic Line!!!

+1

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Nelyubin 0]

mattjw916

I'm sure something is being lost in translation here but I'm not sure what it is.

The US is massive and has huge untapped reserves of all kinds of "resources". The hippies are just worried about us killing butterflies and such plus it's cheaper to strip mine someone else's poor country rather than our own most of the time. When people begin starving that would all change very fast.

I don't really see any tangible benefit to intervening in Syria one way or the other.

Even "Joshua" knew that sometimes the only winning move is not to play.

It is possible to eat a language barrier. I agree.
But it is difficult not to notice that all military interventions of the USA in key regions of natural resources (oil and other sources of raw materials).

[mattjw916 2]

agreed

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[grue 1]

beowulf

It seems that Saudi Arabia is the country that want's the US to attack Syria the most.

Saudi, South Korea, Turkey, Israel and France.

Three of them bought their military capabilities from us, one of them had their military capabilities given to them by us, and the other has othewise-sourced but still perfectly adequate hardware.

If they wanna go in, they do not need us.

cavete terrae.

[melch 1]

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In a complete SHTF scenario the US would just start peddling war bonds again and fire up the propaganda machine to sell them to the American public IMO. After all, it worked pretty damn well in the 40s.

Different times. You're referring to a time that war affected daily life and things like rationing and scrap metal drives were common. Most Americans can't even point out Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria on a map much less give you specific examples of how they are affected daily (which most are not). But I agree that if SHTF people would look at things a lot differently (pragmatic and realistic once survival mode kicked in rather than idealistic).

I think the tangible outcome is that the proverbial red line is reestablished. It's not about regime change, its not about swinging the tide in favor of the rebels and its not about furthering US interest (ok maybe a little...im not that naive). Ultimately its about crippling the ability of people who have demonstrated the capability and willingness to use weapons that more than 150 nations have deemed too cruel to use in warfare.

In an attempt to oversimplfy a complex situation: if you tell your kid not to do something and they do it anyway and there is no reprimand, correction, punishment or what have you then the child will continue to misbehave. Unfortunately most parents would rather be their child's friend than a parent but thats another argument.

[melch 1]

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If they wanna go in, they do not need us

Agreed. They don't need us but its always nice to have the big kid on the playground start the fight rather than start it yourself and hope he helps out.

[grue 1]

melch

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If they wanna go in, they do not need us

Agreed. They don't need us but its always nice to have the big kid on the playground start the fight rather than start it yourself and hope he helps out.

Or in the case of the first four: get the big kid to do everything and take no risk yourself

cavete terrae.

[melch 1]

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Or in the case of the first four: get the big kid to do everything and take no risk yourself

[lawrocket 3]

I happen to think that half-assed military action leads to worse things. We have had a remarkable record of destabilizing the Middle East with military action, CIA action, and even our own inaction.

I think that this is an example of the worst of military involvement in foreign affairs. Either the response should be swift and certain, or the response should be no response. I am against it.

HOWEVER, what a sight for sore eyes! We have the political orchestrators of military action seeking Congressional consent for an Act of War. Holy shit! Checks and balances! The President, by and through his ill-advised "red line" statement, has gotten himself stuck in a box of his own making. Now, the opening of the box turns out to be the Constitutional system of checks and balances that the Presidennt has so publically derided (with his statements of intention and his actual acts of bypassing Congress when it won't do what he wants).

"But lawrocket," you may say. "You want Congressional approval and swift action. Congress isn't going to vote until next week." To which I respond, "FDR called a session and sought a Declaration of War on December 8, 1941 - the day after Pearl Harbor."

If the Congress approves action, I'll object. But at least I will be somewhat heartened that the system of checks and balances was followed. In a very real sense, it demonstrates the wisdom of our Forefathers. Over the last several decades, the power of the President has risen beyond what I believe to be acceptable. Congress has seemingly been more than happy to pass the buck.

Now the President is seeking the assistance of Congress because he crossed a line. Congress is the only way for him to either save face or move forward with some degree of passing responsibility. It's perhaps the first example of his Presidency where I have no problem with him passing the buck.

My wife is hotter than your wife.