Florida choirboy in custody

[mirage62 0]

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I think in decent society GZ wouldn't have had any grounds to approach TM in the first place.

But don't you see that's the problem. The law, is well ....the law, and your standard of a "decent society" really doesn't apply.

I agree that GZ could have waited for the cops. It would have been better BUT legally he was well within his rights to do what he did.

I've grown to believe that GZ wasn't very smart and that TM was just to hot headed. One got killed, so it sucks to be TM. If GZ got killed would that have been better??

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[DaVinci 0]

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I think in decent society GZ wouldn't have had any grounds to approach TM in the first place.

Well good thing he didn't approach him!

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He was following TM because he was suspect, out of place.

And that is EXACTLY what the whole neighborhood watch thing is about. He saw something out of place and CALLED the police. He was asked to keep an eye on him and then told he didn't need to follow him and then STOPPED.

Seriously, read the text of the police call. Zimmerman lost sight of Martin and was afraid to give out his home address because, 'I don't know where he is'.

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I think the whole thing could have been prevented if GZ had waited for the cops instead approaching TM with some sort of wild west vigilante attitude.

TM approached GZ. This is the most fact supported case. At best they accidentally ran into each other after GZ lost sight of Martin.

[airdvr 210]

jclalor

After killing someone and getting away with it, perhaps you feel invincible.

http://www.inquisitr.com/942710/george-zimmerman-in-custody-threatened-wife-and-father-in-law-with-gun/

I'll bet you needed new underwear you creamed so much over this.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[billvon 2,991]

"almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals . . . ."

Latest defensive gun use (and a good example of the social utility of the Stand Your Ground laws) -

=================
Florida man cites ‘Bush doctrine’ after pre-emptive killing of neighbors at Labor Day cookout
By David Edwards
Wednesday, September 4, 2013

Lawyers for a Florida man this week cited President George W. Bush’s pre-emptive war in Iraq and the “Bush Doctrine” as a defense after their client killed two neighbors and attempted to kill a third on Labor Day.

Florida Today reported on Wednesday that attorney’s for William T. Woodward had filed a motion asking for charges against him to be dismissed under Florida’s Stand Your Ground law, which says that gun owners do not have a duty to retreat in the face of an “imminent” threat.

According to officials in Titusville, Woodward had snuck up on his neighbors while they were having a Labor Day barbecue. Police responding to the scene found that Gary Lee Hembree, Roger Picior and Bruce Timothy had all been shot.

Hembree and Picior were later pronounced dead. Blake survived, even though he had been hit 11 times.

In their motion, Woodward’s attorneys claimed that the victims had called him names and threatened to “get him.”

The motion referenced Enoch V. State, which suggests that an “imminent” threat can include something that is likely to occur at sometime in the future.

“I think legally that term has sort of been evolving especially given changes of our government’s definition of ‘imminent,’” attorney Robert Berry, who is representing Woodward, told Florida Today. “It’s become more expansive than someone putting a gun right to your head. It’s things that could become an immediate threat.”

The court document filed by the defense also cited “The Bush Doctrine,” a foreign policy principle used by President George W. Bush to justify the invasion of Iraq. “The Bush Doctrine” embraces “preventive” or pre-emptive war.
==================================

[rhaig 0]

nice example of cherry-picking, or "people unclear on the concept"

From this year's Executive Order mandated CDC study on gun violence:

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Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008

--
Rob

[DanG 1]

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But liberals hate someone, anyone, protecting themselves

You're going off the deep end. Step back.

- Dan G

[DaVinci 0]

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Latest defensive gun use (and a good example of the social utility of the Stand Your Ground laws) -

One example does not make a good data set.... Normally you would know that.

And at any rate your one example still does not counter the report. You are using a weak logical fallacy.

This guy does not seem to have a SD case, and I would not support him. I am however open to seeing more data, but it seems he is just a run of the mill criminal.

[skypuppy 1]

ibx

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You forgot busting someone in the nose and then jumping on top of them and engaging in some ground and pound.

I think in decent society GZ wouldn't have had any grounds to approach TM in the first place. He was following TM because he was suspect, out of place. I don't want speculate about what finally caused his act self defense or if it was justified. I think the whole thing could have been prevented if GZ had waited for the cops instead approaching TM with some sort of wild west vigilante attitude.

Didn't you follow the trial at all?> You seem to have no idea of the facts. GZ did NOT approach TM, he did get out of his truck to follow him at a distance to see where he went. After he lost sight of him he gave up and was returning to his truck when TM doubled back and accosted HIM. And then assaulted him.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[rushmc 23]

ibx

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You forgot busting someone in the nose and then jumping on top of them and engaging in some ground and pound.

I think in decent society GZ wouldn't have had any grounds to approach TM in the first place. He was following TM because he was suspect, out of place. I don't want speculate about what finally caused his act self defense or if it was justified. I think the whole thing could have been prevented if GZ had waited for the cops instead approaching TM with some sort of wild west vigilante attitude.

In a decent society TM would not have circled around and attacked GZ. (GZ did stop when he lost sight and did what the dispatcher asked him. This was the OK comment he made)

The vigilantly speak is bs

Oh, and you seem ok with speculation when it supports your false assertions

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,991]

>>I think in decent society GZ wouldn't have had any grounds to approach TM in the first place.

>In a decent society TM would not have circled around and attacked GZ.

In a decent society, neither would have happened. We do not live in a universally decent society.

[Bignugget 0]

skypuppy

***

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You forgot busting someone in the nose and then jumping on top of them and engaging in some ground and pound.

I think in decent society GZ wouldn't have had any grounds to approach TM in the first place. He was following TM because he was suspect, out of place. I don't want speculate about what finally caused his act self defense or if it was justified. I think the whole thing could have been prevented if GZ had waited for the cops instead approaching TM with some sort of wild west vigilante attitude.

Didn't you follow the trial at all?> You seem to have no idea of the facts. GZ did NOT approach TM, he did get out of his truck to follow him at a distance to see where he went. After he lost sight of him he gave up and was returning to his truck when TM doubled back and accosted HIM. And then assaulted him.


the FACTS, as told by the victor.

Always accurately presented.


You guys are so hilariously blind.

OBVIOUSLY you chased and assaulted me after I have killed you and been accused of murder.

Who the fuck would stand there and say

"oh yea I chased the punk ass kid down because he looked sketchy and I have a fuckin cop complex"

Hes not THAT dumb.

I have a pretty big problem taking the WINNER at his word.

Too bad he KILLED the other guy so we can't hear both sides of the story.

[kelpdiver 2]

Bignugget

the FACTS, as told by the victor.

Always accurately presented.

You seemed to have missed:
the facts of his injuries, as well as the deceased
the testimony of nearby observers
the forensics
as well as the 911 calls

You instead insist on making up an alternate reality that you believe is more plausible, despite the lack of any actual facts to support it.

Perhaps you need some assistance finding a dictionary to understand the word's definition.

[Bignugget 0]

1) No one observed martin mounted on zimmerman beating his face in.

2) Zimmerman didn't look fucked up to me.

3) Nothing on the 911 tapes from people calling in said anything about poor neighborhood watch guy being viciously attacked.

What forensics proved Zimmerman was never the aggressor?

His wife is calling 911 on him, he killed another human...he sounds pretty aggressive to me.

[DaVinci 0]

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1) No one observed martin mounted on zimmerman beating his face in.

FALSE... Seriously either know the subject or quit acting like you know the subject. There was witness testimony that the smaller guy was on top of the other guy doing a 'ground and pound'....

Your lack of knowledge on the topic is showing.

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2) Zimmerman didn't look fucked up to me.

Then you must be blind. Zimmerman had wounds consistent with being hit, Martin did not.

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3) Nothing on the 911 tapes from people calling in said anything about poor neighborhood watch guy being viciously attacked.

Again, you are showing your ignorance on the topic.

[Bignugget 0]

There was testimony the guy thought probably it was Martin on top right before he heard a shot.

That is of course after changing his original story of he had no idea who was where because it was too dark.

Zimmerman didn't look like his LIFE WAS ON THE LINE amount of fucked up. Plenty of domestic assaults on COPS look way worse than Zimmerman, they somehow manage to survive without killing someone. Was he a little beat up, yea, I would try to beat you up before you managed to kill me as well.

I never heard any 911 tape that said anything about the neighborhood watch guy being assaulted while just walking back to his truck. Maybe I missed that.

"Hey 911, I was just looking out the window and I saw our neighborhood watch guy just strolling down the street towards his truck, and all of a sudden this kid sprang from cover and started attacking him like a ninja, overpowered him, bashed his head into the concrete so many times George looked near death, and poor George had to shoot him!!"

If you can provide a link to a 911 call resembling that, I would appreciate it.

[kelpdiver 2]

Bignugget

2) Zimmerman didn't look fucked up to me.

says the guy who ignored the trial, and thus likely stuck with those initial low resolution images that were deliberately used to promote this falsehood? Actual evidence is pretty clear, and if you think head injuries aren't a valid reason to think your life is in danger, you're a fool.

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His wife is calling 911 on him, he killed another human...he sounds pretty aggressive to me.

So do cops killed people justifiably, in your opinion?

And do you think people in the middle of a divorce are trustworthy sources on information? How about those who call 9/11 and then recant everything said?

More bluntly, HOW THE FUCK do you explain her later saying she never saw a gun? If he brandished a gun, or punched her father in the nose (that would also show up in a medical examination), her prospects in the divorce got a lot better looking. Seems like the video evidence supplied to the police might have told a different story...

GZ - get yourself a google glass, or at least a Hero3 and batteries as quickly as possible.

[rushmc 23]

DanG

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But liberals hate someone, anyone, protecting themselves

You're going off the deep end. Step back.

Nope
One need only read the posts in this thread
The complete lack of reality is stunning
But not unusual


And anyway, I just refer to what they post

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

billvon

. We do not live in a universally decent society.

Agreed
and we never will

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

I was refering to your recent trend of blaming everything on "big liberalism". You're starting to sound like dmcoco.

- Dan G

[rushmc 23]

DanG

I was refering to your recent trend of blaming everything on "big liberalism". You're starting to sound like dmcoco.

I sound like myself
you can compare to whom ever you wish

And the comments I made in this thread are spot on!
(for just a few here)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

Bignugget

1) No one observed martin mounted on zimmerman beating his face in.

Right. So the proseuction had to prove GZ was the aggressor. Didn't even get 1 out of 12 people to find that it happened.

[Quote]2) Zimmerman didn't look fucked up to me.

I see. "To me" shall be the determination of all that is proper. Obama looks like he was born in Kenya to a lot of people, too.

[Quote]3) Nothing on the 911 tapes from people calling in said anything about poor neighborhood watch guy being viciously attacked.


Right. Trayvon Martin didn't even say that to 911. He was busy mentioning a creepy ass cracka.

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What forensics proved Zimmerman was never the aggressor?
[\quote]

None. Forensics didnprove that he WAS. That's called "burden of proof." Try proving a negative sometime. It's really tough.

[Quote]His wife is calling 911 on him, he killed another human...he sounds pretty aggressive to me.

John kerry has killed people. He's spent the last few weeks advocating killing more people. What would be your thoughts of a 911 call on him?

You are Remarkable in your steretyping and hatred based on feeling. It's downright right-wing.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[linebckr83 3]

Bignugget

That is of course after changing his original story of he had no idea who was where because it was too dark.
.

He identified clothes, skin color, and body size. So yeah, that's a pretty good description of who was where. Glad you did your research.

Like I said guys, you just can't argue with this guy. Anyone who deliberately ignores the actual facts just so he can argue a fantasy story he created is not being rational. There's no point.

I'm sure you can find the full trial recorded somewhere on the internet. Watch it, learn the facts, then if you still want to argue your point we will be more than happy.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[normiss 801]

No, we won't.

It's just a silly waste of time.

[turtlespeed 220]

normiss

No, we won't.

It's just a silly waste of time.

And the rest of Speakers Corner . . . ISN'T?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Bignugget 0]

kelpdiver

More bluntly, HOW THE FUCK do you explain her later saying she never saw a gun? If he brandished a gun, or punched her father in the nose (that would also show up in a medical examination), her prospects in the divorce got a lot better looking. Seems like the video evidence supplied to the police might have told a different story...

GZ - get yourself a google glass, or at least a Hero3 and batteries as quickly as possible.

The same way I explain the abused wife who "fell down the stairs" when it comes time to press charges, after she originally calls the cops for the dude beating on her.

I have a hard time buying into the story told from the winners POV that's all.

The fact that a high priced, skilled defense attorney was able to confuse a jury enough to get a guilty person off is not reason enough for me to change my opinion.

I know you all think juries get it right, I just disagree.

I do wonder if the outcome is different if he can't afford a headliner. One of the 'consequences' Zimmerman faced was collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars for killing a black kid. Congrats.

I also think when cops chase people down who are no actual threat, and then kill them, they should be charged and convicted of murder as well.