Self Defense: Right or Privilege?

[Gravitymaster 0]

Bignugget

******
Maybe the problem is you consider avoiding violent conflict 'running like a pansy' and I consider it smart shit to do.

We are coming from two different starting points.

are you expecting to be single forever?

Well, if the would be family knows how much (little) you feel for them, sounds like the answer is yes.

The minute there are 2 people in the house, this run out the back door plan becomes woefully inadequate.

A significant other could run out the door with me, its a normal sized door not a tiny doggy door.

Maybe I just under-estimate the time it takes for 2 random burglars to fight 2 80 lb shepherds....but I think I can make it the 25 feet to the back door, could probably get a significant other there as well.

Ill leave it to the imagination as to the sex of the significant other, since that seems to have some bearing for Gravitymaster.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. To each his own, just make sure you use protection.

[Bignugget 0]

linebckr83

***
Maybe the problem is you consider avoiding violent conflict 'running like a pansy' and I consider it smart shit to do.

Absolutely not. I've avoided very many acts of aggression by walking away, been in only one fight and it wasn't directly related to me. I think fighting is stupid and a good way to screw your own life up.

Having said that though, running out the back door isn't always an option...there's a good chance that someday you'll have to defend yourself or someone else and cannot run. What then?

There is a good chance someday I will be in a life and death fight with someone?

You watch too much SpikeTV if you truly believe that.

[oldwomanc6 52]

Not everyone is in the position to maintain a couple of big dogs.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[jgoose71 0]

oldwomanc6

Not everyone is in the position to maintain a couple of big dogs.

Do you think they would still defend him if I came in the door with a couple of big, juicy steaks?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Bignugget 0]

jgoose71

***Not everyone is in the position to maintain a couple of big dogs.

Do you think they would still defend him if I came in the door with a couple of big, juicy steaks?

You are starting to stretch a bit.

This isn't Spike or FX, in reality killers hell bent on breaking in and murdering people for no real reason don't typically spend large amounts of time planning the targets. It would be pretty unusual for you to be carrying a bunch of steaks around.

More likely is that you approach my house intent on coming and murdering me randomly, my dogs hear you outside, raise hell, and you run away to rape and pillage somewhere else.

[Bignugget 0]

oldwomanc6

Not everyone is in the position to maintain a couple of big dogs.

True enough, he asked what I would do.

[oldwomanc6 52]

Bignugget

******
Maybe the problem is you consider avoiding violent conflict 'running like a pansy' and I consider it smart shit to do.

Absolutely not. I've avoided very many acts of aggression by walking away, been in only one fight and it wasn't directly related to me. I think fighting is stupid and a good way to screw your own life up.

Having said that though, running out the back door isn't always an option...there's a good chance that someday you'll have to defend yourself or someone else and cannot run. What then?

There is a good chance someday I will be in a life and death fight with someone?

You watch too much SpikeTV if you truly believe that.

It happens to more than you realize. Running is not always an option.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[Bignugget 0]

oldwomanc6

*********
Maybe the problem is you consider avoiding violent conflict 'running like a pansy' and I consider it smart shit to do.

Absolutely not. I've avoided very many acts of aggression by walking away, been in only one fight and it wasn't directly related to me. I think fighting is stupid and a good way to screw your own life up.

Having said that though, running out the back door isn't always an option...there's a good chance that someday you'll have to defend yourself or someone else and cannot run. What then?

There is a good chance someday I will be in a life and death fight with someone?

You watch too much SpikeTV if you truly believe that.

It happens to more than you realize. Running is not always an option.


I agree that America is a violent ass place, where you are more likely to be killed by a gun than if you lived in Yemen.

But, I still don't believe the majority of Americans are going to face a life and death battle with a random violent predator during their lifetime. I have certainly never seen any statistics or studies to indicate that was likely.

[JasonNC 0]

tkhayes

there are more guns on the streets and there are no/few new regulations to control them. There are more people being killed by guns than there were 30 years ago. However, for example, there are fewer people dying of smoking that 30 years ago.

And there are fewer people dying from heart disease than 30 years ago. So perhaps (in some cases) we do actually care and ACT regarding the value of human life. The 'Action' we take for guns is to further deregulate them (assault weapons ban, recalling politicians etc), and put more of them out there and then claim that the USA is safer .

point made.

The problem with all gun control proposed is that it is all or nothing. Meaning they don't want to look at the best way to handle it. They think a ban will work. This will do nothing. The best way to is education.

I am a big gun rights supporter. I have my concealed carry in several states as well as an NRA instructor rating. This does not mean I agree with everything the NRA does.

That being said I believe "everyone" who buys a gun should have to go through a training class to be able to handle and use that weapon safely and responsibly.

No other person is allowed to carry a weapon with no training except civilians. The police and military go through extensive training and as we see even they can make mistakes.

Just my opinion. As they say "Everyone has one"

[oldwomanc6 52]

Believe what you want. I used to live in that safe place in my head too, but when I was attacked in my own shower, I wish I'd had more than a bar of soap with which to defend myself.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[Bignugget 0]

oldwomanc6

Believe what you want. I used to live in that safe place in my head too, but when I was attacked in my own shower, I wish I'd had more than a bar of soap with which to defend myself.

Sorry to hear some violent asshole attacked you.

You keep a gun in the shower with you now?

That is even more extreme than most would suggest.

[skypuppy 1]

SkyDekker

******

The answer to the real question I think you ask.... It is appropriate to use my weapon to defend myself when I feel that my life is in danger.

There has to be a "reasonable" inquiry. A person can subjectively be in fear that his/her life is in danger. Meanwhile, the circumstances are that no reasonable person thinks that the girl scout was trying to give out a cookie bomb.

On the other hand, there may be circumstances where others can reasonably believe that a person's life is at risk when a person is involved in combat but the person is not subjectively afraid. For example, a person raises his fists and goes to pummel a guy, but the victim is Floyd Mayweather who can lick anyone and had no subjective fear.

There does have to be an element of subjective and one of objective.

And an element of time. And an element of other options available.

I find that it is with these later points that there can be a real difference in opinion.

Do you have a right to continue a confrontation and have it escalate to deadly force if you had an earlier opportunity to de-escalate or remove yourself from the situation.

If you are protecting your life or your stuff, yes.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[Gravitymaster 0]

Bignugget

************
Maybe the problem is you consider avoiding violent conflict 'running like a pansy' and I consider it smart shit to do.

Absolutely not. I've avoided very many acts of aggression by walking away, been in only one fight and it wasn't directly related to me. I think fighting is stupid and a good way to screw your own life up.

Having said that though, running out the back door isn't always an option...there's a good chance that someday you'll have to defend yourself or someone else and cannot run. What then?

There is a good chance someday I will be in a life and death fight with someone?

You watch too much SpikeTV if you truly believe that.

It happens to more than you realize. Running is not always an option.


I agree that America is a violent ass place, where you are more likely to be killed by a gun than if you lived in Yemen.

But, I still don't believe the majority of Americans are going to face a life and death battle with a random violent predator during their lifetime. I have certainly never seen any statistics or studies to indicate that was likely.

Then why do you want to ban guns?

[champu 1]

It's a complete waste of time. People uninterested in owning or having anything to do with firearms or a particular type of firearm are going to be completely uninterested in other people's right to own a firearm.

Just like people who have no interest in having an abortion can so easily disregard women's rights to have an abortion or people who are not gay can so easily promote bans on gay marriage.

You can make all the analogies, examples, hypotheticals, etc. that you want. You can isolate parts of the issues where there is disagreement and you can find common ground elsewhere. It still won't matter. They're still going to walk away from the conversation and vote for candidates that support every gun control, anti-abortion, and anti-gay piece of legislation that comes through because they feel their "side" of the issue is right and even if it's a shit bill that lies about it's intentions, it doesn't directly affect them in a negative way, so fuck it. They'll say, "yeah, that one was pretty stupid" but they won't tell the person representing them who voted for it that, and they'll probably even vote to reelect them.

[turtlespeed 221]

RonD1120

******Both a drill and a hand gun are equally dangerous.

Negative.

Obviously, you have never experienced enhanced interrogation.

Wouldn't THAT be fun.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Bignugget 0]

Gravitymaster

***

I agree that America is a violent ass place, where you are more likely to be killed by a gun than if you lived in Yemen.

But, I still don't believe the majority of Americans are going to face a life and death battle with a random violent predator during their lifetime. I have certainly never seen any statistics or studies to indicate that was likely.

Then why do you want to ban guns?


America is a violent ass place, where you are more likely to be killed by a gun than if you lived in Yemen. ..

[Gravitymaster 0]

Bignugget

******

I agree that America is a violent ass place, where you are more likely to be killed by a gun than if you lived in Yemen.

But, I still don't believe the majority of Americans are going to face a life and death battle with a random violent predator during their lifetime. I have certainly never seen any statistics or studies to indicate that was likely.

Then why do you want to ban guns?


America is a violent ass place, where you are more likely to be killed by a gun than if you lived in Yemen. ..

Figure out a way to get criminals to give up their guns and assurances they won't use them to commit a crime and you will see fewer law abiding people who feel a need to protect themselves. Taking away guns from honest people will only encourage criminals.

[Bignugget 0]

I figured out the way a long time ago.

Ban any and all gun possession, punishable by death immediately.

Stop all gun production in the United States.

That's how I defend myself against people like you.

[kelpdiver 2]

tkhayes

define 'crime'. more people get killed by handguns in the USA every year that any other country (civilized) in the world. fact, indisputable, bar none, that is the reality.

As was pointed out to you (again), fewer people are getting killed by guns in the USA every year, going on 20 years. In what world is 49% fewer a growth problem? And that's in spite of population growth and record setting gun sales. There's little conclusion other than your thesis is false.

Quote

My previous statements stand. The constitution allows assholes to carry guns and they can act recklessly and irresponsibly. Army Rangers can carry guns, (as well as others that are highly trained in the art of gun play) and they are less of a problem. The USA would be better off if 270,000,000 guns were in the hands of well trained people instead of assholes.

Of the 8000 handgun deaths you mention, how many would not have happened if all gun owners were "well trained." 7800?

No, lack of training kills remarkably few people. ("well trained" cops are overrepresented here) Ill intent covers the bulk of the problem. So long as the drug trade is worth billions, people will fight violently for it, using any means they can obtain.

Quote

And the gun debate helps to make my larger case that Americans especially really do not give a fuck about human life, despite their repeated claims that they do.

People value their own life more than you do.

[kelpdiver 2]

Bignugget

A significant other could run out the door with me, its a normal sized door not a tiny doggy door.

Maybe I just under-estimate the time it takes for 2 random burglars to fight 2 80 lb shepherds....but I think I can make it the 25 feet to the back door, could probably get a significant other there as well.

Yes, you over estimate the benefit of the dogs. You're correct in that they would deter most random intrusions, but it's hardly a guarantee.

If the situation is bad enough to run out the door, you probably don't have time to fetch the SO, particular if that person is upstairs, asleep, in the shower, etc. Would be great if you could instead take a phone and a gun into a back room with that person. For those hundred thousand to million+ DGUs/year, you don't actually have to use the gun. Just be prepared to use it, and make it known.

[kelpdiver 2]

oldwomanc6

Not everyone is in the position to maintain a couple of big dogs.

big dogs also get old, and a bit quicker than smaller dogs. Most dog owners aren't going to trade up for a younger model like a trophy wife, kill the old one.

[tkhayes 348]

Quote

The problem with all gun control proposed is that it is all or nothing. Meaning they don't want to look at the best way to handle it. They think a ban will work. This will do nothing. The best way to is education.

Not true, there are lots of ideas from lots of different groups on the table, even the simple idea of more closely scrutinizing the people allowed to get a carry permit. or to buy a weapon.

ALL those ideas, all of them, every single one of them, are fought by the gun lobby. The gun lobby does NOT support any change, and that is clearly demonstrated in their actions.

Name something that the NRA has put forth as a solution to gun violence.

And also show me the letter you wrote to your congressmen requesting that a law inquiring training for all gun owners.....I am willing to bet you have not done that.

I have. And it is just one of the possible solutions to some of the problems.

[tkhayes 348]

Quote

As was pointed out to you (again), fewer people are getting killed by guns in the USA every year, going on 20 years. In what world is 49% fewer a growth problem?

show me the source for the 49% number. My source shows an increase each year, but granted the rate per 100,000 people has been about the same for 15 or so years.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Bignugget

I figured out the way a long time ago.

Ban any and all gun possession, punishable by death immediately.

Stop all gun production in the United States.

That's how I defend myself against people like you.

Your justifications keep getting weirder and weirder. You just told us you doubted you would ever find yourself in a situation that would require you to need a gun. Now you are worried about someone on the internet whom you have never met and likely never will. How am I a threat to you? I have no criminal history and I don't care what you and your boyfriend do.

[jgoose71 0]

tkhayes

Name something that the NRA has put forth as a solution to gun violence.

They fight every day to ensure that the "good guys" (IE: ME!!!!) are not out gunned by the bad guys, allowing me to defend my self while the cops finish their donuts....

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything