Boomerdog 0 #51 October 5, 2013 The Modern World? The funny thing is that in this modern world, technology has of course changed and perhaps the greatest impact is how technology reduces time to either communicate or get things done. What has NOT changed is human behavior; it's about the sam enow as it was say 5,000 years ago. What makes us better than say those who used "crude" technology to build the Pyramids? Could we do it better? As I posted here, I am Catholic. I am not offended by those who throw stones at my faith and I 'm not trying to proselytize or attempt to convert anyone here. What you choose to believe is quite frankly your choice and your business. Something I would caution. Do not be fooled by this Pope that he has "relaxed" the standards or teachings of the Church. To use the filter from the New York Times or any secular rag is a mistake. Read him in totality and make up your own mind. He is taking an approach I personally like. The Church has to accept the World as it is and minister accordingly. Whether the world accepts that message is of course another story, but the teachings have not gone away nor will they. You have to remember for all of its glorious as well as notorious past. The Catholic Church in 2,000 years of existence has outlived every major empire. Many have tried to destroy it from without as well as from within...it's still standing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #52 October 5, 2013 What are the arguments the Church has made in support of their position of which you disagree? Such decisions are not made "willy nilly" as many have taken years and sometimes centuries of thought, debate, and struggle before the decision is handed down. "And it is the only faith that has a 'little problem' with the clergy." If the 'little problem' is what I think you are referring to, then it is not a little problem, but criminal actions and there are no excuses for this. The Catholic Church is the most visible, but that 'little problem' is not confiend to the Catholic Chruch. The flawed human beings, the "Earthen Vessels" St. Paul refers to in 2Cor4:7 comprise the Church and yes have leadership and authority. It has not always worked perfectly, but it does seem to work in spite of the objections of many. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #53 October 5, 2013 Quote"And it is the only faith that has a 'little problem' with the clergy." If the 'little problem' is what I think you are referring to, then it is not a little problem, but criminal actions and there are no excuses for this. The Catholic Church is the most visible, but that 'little problem' is not confiend to the Catholic Chruch. Yes, in the contextual sense he means it, it really is... more or less. Sure, there are some examples of non-Catholic clergy - just like, say, teachers, scoutmasters or cops - who sometimes abuse their positions to sexually exploit juveniles. But, at least in modern times (say, the past 70 years or so), only in the Catholic Church has the sheer number of examples of adult clerical and vocational serial sexual abusers of juveniles reached utterly epidemic proportions. To talk about the occasional Protestant or Jewish clergyman who does so, too, or the occasional teacher who does so, too - as if somehow that is even remotely a quantitative equivalent - is intellectually dishonest, and it insults our intelligence. The first step to the Catholic Church's true remediation of the stain is to admit that it has a problem that is unique to itself, and not to try to back-handedly defend itself with "Well, others do it, too." The next step is for the Church to drop its celibacy (and non-marriage and non-having children) requirement for priests, nuns and brothers; for that, in large part, is directly causative (not just correlative) of the sexual abuse problem. So long as that requirement exists - I'd argue even more so in the present day than 2 or 3 generations ago - a grossly disporportionate number of people who go into those vocations will be those who are so socially odd that they use the vocation to escape from the social and sexual lifestyle norms of lay society. (And then the Church goes and puts these social misfits in charge of children. Just brilliant.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #54 October 7, 2013 Andy9o8Quote"And it is the only faith that has a 'little problem' with the clergy." If the 'little problem' is what I think you are referring to, then it is not a little problem, but criminal actions and there are no excuses for this. The Catholic Church is the most visible, but that 'little problem' is not confiend to the Catholic Chruch. Yes, in the contextual sense he means it, it really is... more or less. Sure, there are some examples of non-Catholic clergy - just like, say, teachers, scoutmasters or cops - who sometimes abuse their positions to sexually exploit juveniles. But, at least in modern times (say, the past 70 years or so), only in the Catholic Church has the sheer number of examples of adult clerical and vocational serial sexual abusers of juveniles reached utterly epidemic proportions... Don't forget about the leadership of the church actively covering up and protecting the abusers. Some were moved several times, to places where they again had the opportunity to exploit children, with no warning at all given to the congregation."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #55 October 7, 2013 In the recent scandal of clergy pedophilia, no excuses can be offered NOR should they be tolerated. At least the priests I've talked to or have commented on this scandal desire to see those accused receive a fair hearing and if wrong doing is revealed, defrockment and prosecution should result. How the Church responds to the rest of the world in light of its wrongdoing or any wrongdoing may seem bizarre, hypocritical, secretive, non-transparent etc etc. And to some Catholics such as myself, we too are mystified. Then we have to remember that the Church has close to two millenia of experiences in dealing with both the secular world as well as secular political power. Thus, is the response seen as circling the wagons OR is the response a result of facts the rest of us don't have at hand but the Church does? Personally I don't know. Some case resolutions have been at the surface questionable and I personally find myself torn between accepting the decision because I don't have all the facts or just flipping out and thinking "off with their heads no matter what." I have to remember that this Church is run by human beings who are tempted by the same passions and succumb to the same evils as the rest of us. On the issue of celibacy and some of the other hot button issues that critics cite to beckon modernity. Once again, the issues and their resolution are not that easy Agree or disagree with the conclusions, but the Church is blessed with a large body of scholarship in areas of Greek, Hebrew, Linguistics, History, Science (YES Science) etc. Study is contemplative and may take years to reach conclusion on some of the most difficult theological issues. As an example, reconciliation on the Doctrine of the Trinity took 200 years and was not resolved until St. Augustin of Hippo wrote the treatise "Dae Trinitate." While the Church does claim authority on a wide number of issues, it will also state that they have the authority to tell the world they have NO authority on certain issues simply because the matter has been Divinely settled. Again, not a cop out or an excuse but the result of many years (and sometimes centuries) of debate and struggle. This may not be the answer you want or agree with, but it is nonetheless the best answer I can give. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #56 October 23, 2013 Who knew that spending $55M of church money to renovate your home would be considered unreasonable?http://gawker.com/pope-francis-suspends-bling-bishop-for-55-million-ho-1450634403 "There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,439 #57 October 23, 2013 Sometimes the very best government is an intelligent benevolent dictator. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 219 #58 October 23, 2013 wmw999 Sometimes the very best government is an intelligent benevolent dictator. Wendy P. Like Lenin.And Saddam HussainAnd CastroI'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,439 #59 October 23, 2013 That's where the benevolent part comes in. come on -- are you really going to say that the Pope is anything but a dictator? While he's elected, he's elected for life, and has the power of God behind him. What he says, goes. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 219 #60 October 23, 2013 wmw999That's where the benevolent part comes in. come on -- are you really going to say that the Pope is anything but a dictator? While he's elected, he's elected for life, and has the power of God behind him. What he says, goes. Wendy P. Are you really, really going to back that up with a strait face?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #61 October 23, 2013 turtlespeed ***Sometimes the very best government is an intelligent benevolent dictator. Wendy P. Like Lenin.And Saddam HussainAnd CastroYou should put "DICTIONARY" at the top of your Christmas list.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #62 October 23, 2013 Agreed. John Paul II was a pretty good one as well. Keep this up and they might start repairing their reputation as an inflexible anachronism of an institution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #63 October 30, 2013 ryoder Who knew that spending $55M of church money to renovate your home would be considered unreasonable?http://gawker.com/pope-francis-suspends-bling-bishop-for-55-million-ho-1450634403 Oh, YES!!!http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-bishop-of-blings-multimillion-euro-mansion-to-be-used-to-serve-needy-8907623.html"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yarpos 4 #64 October 30, 2013 ryoder***But Pope Francis seems like a pretty good guy to me. Every time I read about something he said, I must ask: "Is the Pope still Catholic?" He's a Jesuit......Catholic Special Forcesregards, Steve the older I get...the better I was Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #65 December 18, 2013 Don't think I recall this magazine choosing a pope as person-of-the-year before: http://www.advocate.com/year-review/2013/12/16/advocates-person-year-pope-francis "There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #66 November 9, 2014 time.com/3574166/pope-francis-demotes-cardinal-raymond-burke/ Score another one for this pope.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #67 April 13, 2015 kallend But Pope Francis seems like a pretty good guy to me. I'm beginning to like him as well. Calling the Armenian genocide exactly that in light of anticipated backlash from Turkey is the right thing to do. Long overdue but never too late -- bravo Francis. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #68 May 27, 2015 kallend But Pope Francis seems like a pretty good guy to me. Eh, now I'm not so sure. He could have just stayed ambiguously silent about the gay marriage vote in Ireland. Instead, the Vatican went and did this: Same-sex marriage: Irish vote 'defeat for humanity' says Vatican official ... which I find hard to believe was done without Francis's acquiescence (if not his actual instruction). Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #69 May 27, 2015 Andy9o8*** But Pope Francis seems like a pretty good guy to me. Eh, now I'm not so sure. He could have just stayed ambiguously silent about the gay marriage vote in Ireland. Instead, the Vatican went and did this: Same-sex marriage: Irish vote 'defeat for humanity' says Vatican official ... which I find hard to believe was done without Francis's acquiescence (if not his actual instruction). Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss? Does a bear shit in the woods? Is the Pope... wait a minute... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #70 May 27, 2015 Never been quite sure why a fair proportion of the worlds population take relationship and sex advice from a bunch of celibate transvestite (cassocks are basically dresses right?) old men.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #71 May 27, 2015 >cassocks are basically dresses right? Well, so are wingsuits. So we have a fair number of transvestites ourselves here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #72 May 27, 2015 billvon>cassocks are basically dresses right? Well, so are wingsuits. So we have a fair number of transvestites ourselves here. Indeed. And then, there are the Scots. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #73 May 27, 2015 Andy9o8***>cassocks are basically dresses right? Well, so are wingsuits. So we have a fair number of transvestites ourselves here. Indeed. And then, there are the Scots. A real man can get away with wearin a kilt.... https://punjapit.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/rich_kilts.jpg almost NSFW They have to have the right stools at the local pub too. http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/317006/80545624.png Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #74 May 27, 2015 billvon>cassocks are basically dresses right? Well, so are wingsuits. So we have a fair number of transvestites ourselves here.Some years ago Tony's demo Wingsuits were all in shocking pink. Looked like prom dresses. He said it cut down on thefts.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybill 22 #75 May 28, 2015 kallend But Pope Francis seems like a pretty good guy to me. Hi John, So is this "Pope Francis" another "Cardinal Puff" spin off??? "For the 3rd and final time!!!!!"SCR-2034, SCS-680 III%, Deli-out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
