How is wealth distributed in America ?

[kallend 2,106]

jgoose71

*********>Why is it that wealth is so concentrated? Because with the seizure of wealth and redistribution of it

Nonsense. There are many reasons that there's an income disparity in this country. The fact that the federal government taxes the rich heavily and the poor almost not at all is NOT one of them.

Well, actually it is. Taxation and regulations are the 2 main factors there are no jobs in the U.S. The U.S. has the highest corporate tax in the world now. We surpassed Japan while under Obama.

And when I talk about regulations, I'm not talking solely about EPA. You can take all the talk about "Republicans want dirty air and dirty water" and cram it up your cram hole...
The NLRB and several other government entities have made this the most job un-friendly country in the world also...

If a company has the capitol to build a new manufacturing plant in either the U.S., or say Brazil, guess where the jobs go?

See Exhibit A: Ford Motor Company.

WELL, the corporations themselves wanted corporations to be considered to be persons so they'd have constitutional rights and protections, so corporations can hardly complain if they get taxed like persons.

Please God, tell me Kallend is not an Economics Professor. And if he is, please God, send his students to China...

So you can't find fault with what I wrote, so go to the veiled personal attack instead.

Got it.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]WELL, the corporations themselves wanted corporations to be considered to be persons so they'd have constitutional rights and protections, so corporations can hardly complain if they get taxed like persons.

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]So you can't find fault with what I wrote, so go to the veiled personal attack instead.

Got it.

[rickjump1 0]

jclalor

I'll say it again, I was joking about the living out of my car. I'm a gainfully employed nurse who has been working at the same hospital for the last 10 years.

The funny thing is I will be moving to North Dakota in the near future, but not too work in the oil fields.

Glad to hear that.... I have friends working over there and they describe it as almost crazy. Lack of housing, traffic is terrible, but the work is there if you want it. Good luck in nursing where ever you are going.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[kelpdiver 2]

jclalor

I'm really not at all that cynical, but I do believe its a lot tougher for an individual to achieve the American dream.

13 years ago, I arrived in the Bay Arra in an old beat up station wagon with $300 in my pocket . Today... I'm living in that station wagon.

False hyperbole rarely helps an argument.

and the Bay Area is one of the strongest examples where people can earn their success, and the reason why people from all over the country flock here. It's much less about who you know or where you went to school, but what can you deliver, particularly at the startups. And there is a thriving middle class - albeit at definitions that seem astronomical to national averages.

In contrast, I know quite a few that have earned their lack of success by spending more time drinking and smoking (their medical pot) and just punching the clock. When we get hit by recessions (dot bomb, 2008), these people get filtered from employment in a hurry.

[jclalor 12]

Perhaps 20 years ago it didn't matter much who you knew or where you went to school, not today. The tech industry here is ultra competitive, you better have a masters degree from a top college and know someone to even have your resume looked at.

People have been smoking pot for years, blaming anybody who falls out of the middle class on being lazy and smoking dope is not going to serve the GOP well in years to come.

[billvon 3,070]

>Perhaps 20 years ago it didn't matter much who you knew or where you went to
>school, not today.

It's really not that much different today.

> The tech industry here is ultra competitive, you better have a masters degree from a
>top college and know someone to even have your resume looked at.

I can think of half a dozen people with BS degrees from middling colleges who have done very, very well in the telecomm industry.

>People have been smoking pot for years, blaming anybody who falls out of the middle
>class on being lazy and smoking dope . . .

Being lazy (which has a slight, but not zero, correlation to smoking dope) is an excellent way to fail, both historically and today.

[airdvr 210]

kelpdiver

***
I'm really not at all that cynical, but I do believe its a lot tougher for an individual to achieve the American dream.

13 years ago, I arrived in the Bay Arra in an old beat up station wagon with $300 in my pocket . Today... I'm living in that station wagon.

False hyperbole rarely helps an argument.

and the Bay Area is one of the strongest examples where people can earn their success, and the reason why people from all over the country flock here. It's much less about who you know or where you went to school, but what can you deliver, particularly at the startups. And there is a thriving middle class - albeit at definitions that seem astronomical to national averages.

In contrast, I know quite a few that have earned their lack of success by spending more time drinking and smoking (their medical pot) and just punching the clock. When we get hit by recessions (dot bomb, 2008), these people get filtered from employment in a hurry.

I'll be in the bay area next week. From what information I've been able to find there is no middle class.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[kelpdiver 2]

jclalor

Perhaps 20 years ago it didn't matter much who you knew or where you went to school, not today. The tech industry here is ultra competitive, you better have a masters degree from a top college and know someone to even have your resume looked at.

Somehow I've managed with a non technical BS, and have colleagues with no degree at all. 20 years ago, there was a penalty for not graduating college - it's gone now.

[kelpdiver 2]

airdvr

I'll be in the bay area next week. From what information I've been able to find there is no middle class.

wonder who is buying all the housing then.

Your sources are pretty bad.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

jclalor

The tech industry here is ultra competitive, you better have a masters degree from a top college and know someone to even have your resume looked at.

I've been working in software for a couple decades with the last six years and two startups in Silicon Valley.

While the tech industry is very competitive, once you get real world experience where you went to college and whether you graduated are completely irrelevant. It's all about what you've done in industry and are therefore likely to do again.

You don't need to know people either; a linkedin account will get you plenty of contacts. Although most come from contingency recruiters just matching keywords a substantial minority are from executives and retained recruiters who know what they need for potentially interesting leadership positions.

[airdvr 210]

kelpdiver

***
I'll be in the bay area next week. From what information I've been able to find there is no middle class.

wonder who is buying all the housing then.

Your sources are pretty bad.

http://www.realestate.com/results/CA/Mountain+View/

I wouldn't call the average home price of $864K to be middle class. Who do you think is buying all the housing?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[champu 1]

airdvr

I wouldn't call the average home price of $864K to be middle class.

That's because you live in Massillon, OH. If someone could afford an $864K home in Massillon, OH, you're right, they would not be middle class.

airdvr

Who do you think is buying all the housing?

Middle class people. It's just that in Mountain View that means "people who can afford $864K homes."

[kelpdiver 2]

airdvr

I wouldn't call the average home price of $864K to be middle class. Who do you think is buying all the housing?

you should also look up the average rent in Mt View, or SF, or the entire penisula. They can't all be upper class. Or perhaps you'd care to give us a usable definition for the class segments. But I can tell you - "makes over X/year" without regard for local salaries and costs of living is a non starter.

[lummy 4]

The bay area is a lot more that just Silicon Valley (South Bay). Concord is a 40 minute commute into downtown SF. Median prices are half what you posted.

http://www.realestate.com/results/CA/Concord/

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[airdvr 210]

Estimated median house or condo value in 2011: $719,800 (it was $422,700 in 2000)
San Francisco: $719,800
California: $355,600
Mean prices in 2011: All housing units: $800,192; Detached houses: $832,462; Townhouses or other attached units: $757,494; In 2-unit structures: $890,423; In 3-to-4-unit structures: $844,601; In 5-or-more-unit structures: $691,612; Mobile homes: $296,924; Occupied boats, RVs, vans, etc.: $539,744


http://www.city-data.com/city/San-Francisco-California.html#ixzz2gPjFC6KG

You guys need to get a dose of reality. $300,000 mobile homes? Yea...that's middle class.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[DrewEckhardt 0]

airdvr

You guys need to get a dose of reality. $300,000 mobile homes? Yea...that's middle class.

Just think of Silicon Valley as another country where the US dollar doesn't go as far and the local working class mines code instead of coal.

$300K mobile homes are middle class where the big local employers pay new graduates over $100,000 a year (this article http://www.netpaths.net/blog/starting-salaries-of-top-technology-companies-apple-google-microsoft-facebook/ is illustrative but out of date) and good mid-career professionals (not executives who may do better) can break $200K cash at venture funded startups (disregarding equity with a median value of zero) and $300K total compensation at big companies.

That's also the sort of population which supports $4400 tax and jumbo mortgage payments (what you get when you borrow $720K on a $900K property at 4.5%) that make a $3400 difference in take-home pay (or $53K and $41K annually gross and net).

[kelpdiver 2]

airdvr

You guys need to get a dose of reality. $300,000 mobile homes? Yea...that's middle class.

it's going to be difficult if you can't get past the "things cost more here" mentality.

[airdvr 210]

kelpdiver

***
You guys need to get a dose of reality. $300,000 mobile homes? Yea...that's middle class.

it's going to be difficult if you can't get past the "things cost more here" mentality.

Actually, it's the 'you must be fucking stupid' mentality I have difficulty with. When the average home price is double the state's median why would I want to buy a home for 100% more than I can anywhere else? Add to that a state & local tax burden that means I get to take home less than 50% of what I earned and I can think of 49 other states I'd rather live in. Don't get me wrong, you guys live there might enjoy that but I'd just as soon have someone give me a stick so I can beat myself with it.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Stumpy 284]

airdvr

Don't get me wrong, you guys live there might enjoy that but I'd just as soon have someone give me a stick so I can beat myself with it.

I feel the same about the US

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[lummy 4]

Again, you're using data for a 7 sq mile penninsula and calling it the "Bay Area". That would be the same as taking the data for buying a condo in Manhatten and applying that to all of NYC.

And for what it's worth, I bought a house a little over a year ago for under 400k. I am solid middle class and my net pay is about 3/4 my gross. To be fair, I am legally a single parent so I tend to have more deductions.

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[kelpdiver 2]

lummy

Again, you're using data for a 7 sq mile penninsula and calling it the "Bay Area". That would be the same as taking the data for buying a condo in Manhatten and applying that to all of NYC.

It wouldn't be terribly different if he went from Marin to San Jose along the western side of the Bay. And it's not exactly cheap in Berkeley, LaMoRinda, Fremont, etc. The only cheap(er) spots within the inner Bay are cheap for a reason - like all the bad parts of Oakland, or nearly all of Richmond.

[kelpdiver 2]

airdvr

Actually, it's the 'you must be fucking stupid' mentality I have difficulty with. When the average home price is double the state's median why would I want to buy a home for 100% more than I can anywhere else? Add to that a state & local tax burden that means I get to take home less than 50% of what I earned and I can think of 49 other states I'd rather live in. Don't get me wrong, you guys live there might enjoy that but I'd just as soon have someone give me a stick so I can beat myself with it.

Surely Ohio has some nice zip codes that fetch a higher premium than the state average?

If you took all California property within 7 miles of the Pacific Ocean, you'd find it is all considerably higher than the state average. And you'd find that to be true pretty much world round. People tend to live near the coasts, and lately there has been a tendency to live closer to the urban core, rather than the suburbs. Commuting has gotten more painful.

People have been bitching about the price of housing here for 3 decades. But the renters bitch even more. People want to live here and there are a ton of quality jobs available.

[airdvr 210]

My issue is with the percentages. Average home prices in my area are ~$200K. In order for me to live in that area I would need my income to increase by a factor of 4. That's not going to happen. And if the median is $800K you have to save $160K as a down payment to avoid PMI? Wow.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[kelpdiver 2]

airdvr

My issue is with the percentages. Average home prices in my area are ~$200K. In order for me to live in that area I would need my income to increase by a factor of 4. That's not going to happen. And if the median is $800K you have to save $160K as a down payment to avoid PMI? Wow.

Potentially not a factor of 4 - people here tend to spend a greater percentage of income on housing, but smaller on other expenses. Costs that tend to be nearly fixed across the country (like a car) are effectively cheaper when divided until the larger income. And for that matter, my monthly commuting costs me ~$50 post tax for a muni pass. Many choose not to have a car at all, saving several hundred per month.

And don't forget, the only people paying 800k are the most recent. Those brave enough to cough up 300-500k in the late 90s doubled.

That all said, there are several costs that are higher than you'd see, due to the fact that everyone else's wages are higher too. Child care is murder for one. For two, it may be cheaper for a parent to stay home instead. Dining out is great, but also a not cheap.