Religion as a moral compass???

[rickjump1 0]

billvon

>Real Christians? I haven't met any "real" Christians who believe in stoning people, nor
>have I met any "real" Christians who were totally without sin.

Agreed. Although ironically, your definition of "real Christians" means Christians who do not entirely believe in the Bible; presumably fake Christians would believe in the Bible to a greater degree. (Not believing everything in the Bible, of course, is in general a wise path to take.)

Actually "real" Christians came from GeorgiaDon in a post to me further up, and I replied with "real" Christians; something like that.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[GeorgiaDon 362]

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Although I attend Church, I have a problem: I like to spend time in bars.

Well considering Jesus turned water into wine (and apparently an excellent vintage), I don't see the problem with that.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Darius11 12]

Religion is funny because we have the ones people know about then the ones they are not aware of.
In the US capitalism is a religion, and we kill people by the hundreds of thousands for it. We don’t say praise capitalism but we do it for the profit for the money.

Atheism has become a religion now. I think there the funniest group to me so sure and so annoying. They hate religion but yet use their guess of what they can perceive to say THERE IS NO GOD.

Nationalism is a religion in many countries, and it has lead people to do horrendous things.

I think anything you have a very strong feeling about where it affects your logic and rational can be a religion to that person.
Skydiving is a religion to some.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[DanG 1]

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Atheism has become a religion now. I think there the funniest group to me so sure and so annoying. They hate religion but yet use their guess of what they can perceive to say THERE IS NO GOD.

There are extremist Athiests just like there are extremist Muslims. Don't let the actions of the extremists define the group.

- Dan G

[rehmwa 2]

DanG

Don't let the actions of the extremists define the group.

well, crap. I suppose we have to apply this rule to christians, enviromentalists, Reps, Dems and all the rest too?


I guess Speaker's Corner will just die out if that happens. What's the fun in that?


(people get their moral compass from many different places, parents can teach morality from a lot of different sources (religion being as a popular one as any other). I don't care how they get it/learn it, if their actions show them to be decent people, I'm ok with just that.

anything can be corrupted)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Darius11 12]

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There are extremist Athiests just like there are extremist Muslims. Don't let the actions of the extremists define the group.

Not sure if its the same thing.

Extremist Muslims take only small parts of the religion, omit others and manipulate the religion for a motive and motivation. Same with Extremist Christians or Jews.

Atheism in its foundation take the extreme view of there is no god. So it is extreme at the core like a hate group
That’s like saying don’t judge the KKK it has some extremist members but not all are bad. My issue is philosophically I disagree with what they stand for.
Atheism is idiotic to me because it’s not meant to be a religion yet uses faith to reach its finite conclusion.
Agnostics I have no issue with.

I just want people to stay true what ever standards they set for themselves.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[RonD1120 62]

Darius11

***

I just want people to stay true what ever standards they set for themselves.

I believe that would be existentialism.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[wmw999 2,446]

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Atheism in its foundation take the extreme view of there is no god. So it is extreme at the core like a hate group

Well, theism (any of them) at their foundation take the extreme view that there is a God.

Atheists come into at least a couple of camps; there are the

"there is no evidence of a God, therefore I don't believe in God, 'nuff said" types,
and the

"there is no God, dammit and I'll argue that until I'm blue in the face or you're convinced."

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rehmwa 2]

wmw999

Atheists come into at least a couple of camps; there are the

"there is no evidence of a God, therefore I don't believe in God, 'nuff said" types,
and the

"there is no God, dammit and I'll argue that until I'm blue in the face or you're convinced."

does the second group contain all the "if you don't agree with me you must be a moron with no understanding of anything substantial and that makes me smarter and better than everyone else and thinking that way makes me bitter and content all at the same time"

or would you classify that as more of just some people feel that way about everything and this is just one of the levers they apply to be that way - (i.e., cause or effect)

(of course, I can apply that to any belief system, not just atheism. And, anyway, everyone knows that only apathetic agnostics really are complete and wonderful enough to understand the true way to approach reality - or so I'm told, I don't really care to test it either way, nor would I know how to approach it if I had a theory......which I don't.....not that it matters)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wmw999 2,446]

Well, I try not to classify them too, too, tightly -- they keep escaping from their boxes

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[DanG 1]

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Not sure if its the same thing.

It's exactly the same thing.

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Atheism in its foundation take the extreme view of there is no god.

What's more extreme? Saying that there is no God, or saying that the one particular set of books, written hundreds or thousands of years ago, describes a very particular diety and his opinions on things, and any other thoughts on religion are wrong?

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So it is extreme at the core like a hate group

WTF? My believe that there is no God is nothing at all like a hate group. You really need to explain that one.

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My issue is philosophically I disagree with what they stand for.

My guess is that "what they stand for" in your mind is the extremist version. What most atheists stand for is nothing (at least as far as religion goes). How is nothing extremist?

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Atheism is idiotic to me because it’s not meant to be a religion yet uses faith to reach its finite conclusion.

No, it uses logic. Faith is what religious people use. Atheists, by definition, lack faith.

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I just want people to stay true what ever standards they set for themselves.

As do I. Seems to me its religious people that generally have trouble keeping the standards they claim to strive for.

- Dan G

[normiss 800]

Agreed.

[lawrocket 3]

wmw999

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Atheism in its foundation take the extreme view of there is no god. So it is extreme at the core like a hate group

Well, theism (any of them) at their foundation take the extreme view that there is a God.

Atheists come into at least a couple of camps; there are the

"there is no evidence of a God, therefore I don't believe in God, 'nuff said" types,
and the

"there is no God, dammit and I'll argue that until I'm blue in the face or you're convinced."

Wendy P.

Very well stated.

Here's my take on Bible as moral compass:

At least they point to something as the source of their morality. Some doctrine that they hold dear that they can point to and quote chapter and verse to say "here's why I do this."

Whaut do I have? Myself. My own thoughts and ideas that are little more than piecemeal observations that come from what I've read, heard and experienced that form my own little code. I can often point to this or that but really, it's just my own amalgam of beliefs.

I could write them down and tell others to live their life that way. But wouldn't that put me on par with L. Ron Hubbard if he was broke?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[champu 1]

The concept of "zero" (as a quantity, not just a placeholder in a number system) is actually less intuitive and more abstract than many people realize.

If I have 0 apples, we all understand what that means. We know what apples are. We agree they exist despite my current lack of them. We can easily imagine having had some quantity of apples at some point in the past, not having any now, and perhaps having some more in the future. Mathematically, in our subconcious, what we're doing is saying that I have 0/(some big number of all the apples or all the apples I care to imagine at the moment) and we all end up on the same page.

Theism is a bit more peculiar. I'll use monotheism in the next example, but any finitetheism would work the same way.

Suppose there's a god. An atheist does not believe said god exists (that is, believes in 0/1 gods) and is "wrong." A monotheist believes in said god (that is, believes in 1/1 gods) and is "right." Simple... okay, now suppose there is no god. An atheist does not believe in any god (that is, believes in 0/0 gods, which is undefined) and "just doesn't have a defined opinion." A monotheist believes in a god (that is, believes in 1/0 gods) and is "out of his or her mind."

I know what you're thinking... god is infinite... okay... then the values become 0/inf=wrong, inf/inf=undef, 0/0=undef, inf/0=insane respectively...

Look, the point is as atheists we may be wrong, but we're definitely not out of our minds. That's more than theists can say.

[GeorgiaDon 362]

rehmwa

***Don't let the actions of the extremists define the group.

I guess Speaker's Corner will just die out if that happens. Isn't that a little extreme?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rehmwa 2]

GeorgiaDon

******Don't let the actions of the extremists define the group.

I guess Speaker's Corner will just die out if that happens. Isn't that a little extreme?

absolutely

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Darius11 12]

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Well, theism (any of them) at their foundation take the extreme view that there is a God.

In most of the books I have read it is mentioned that we are not capable of understanding god. So i think saying there is a god means we came from something.

From what I have read from people who claim to be atheist is they believe in the scientific answer, the big bang and there for the universe is are creator. However I think it’s important to note that scientific explanations change over time. As for the big bang where did the two big rocks that collided, or the singularity with infinite mass come from?

So I think the idea we came from something is an idea that we all agree on? Now what’s that things or things that made us thats up for grabs

I don’t know, not claiming to know just saying when you wan to approach it from the purely scientific angle the arguments still breaks down. Now I understand that might not be the case in a 100 years but right now it is.
The only logic place to be is at I don’t know.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[wmw999 2,446]

Far be it from me to speak for atheists (for one thing, they prove themselves to be perfectly capable of speaking, and speaking, and speaking, for themselves ).

I have a feeling that someone who doesn't believe in God is very comfortable with the thought that either we didn't come from anything, or that we don't know what came before the big bang, and that's OK.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[ianmdrennan 2]

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I have a feeling that someone who doesn't believe in God is very comfortable with the thought that either we didn't come from anything, or that we don't know what came before the big bang, and that's OK.

Yep - at least in my case.

That said, I'm also totally comfortable with people believing whatever it is they need to get them through this life. As long as they don't try and shove it down my throat - I say "More power to them."

Performance Designs Factory Team

[quade 4]

wmw999

Far be it from me to speak for atheists (for one thing, they prove themselves to be perfectly capable of speaking, and speaking, and speaking, for themselves ).

I have never seen an atheist stand on a street corner, on a soapbox, with a bullhorn, telling people their way is the "right" way.

The same can not be said of a number of religions I've been confronted by on the streets on a regular basis.

So, when you want to talk about a group that is "speaking, and speaking, and speaking, for themselves" you might want to look at the relative nature of the statement.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Darius11 12]

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What's more extreme? Saying that there is no God, or saying that the one particular set of books, written hundreds or thousands of years ago, describes a very particular diety and his opinions on things, and any other thoughts on religion are wrong?

I can’t blame humane motivation and manipulated on religion. My understanding is that religion at the very base tells us we came from somewhere.
Do you believe we came from somewhere?

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WTF? My believe that there is no God is nothing at all like a hate group. You really need to explain that one.

I mean it comes from a root that is absolute, THERE IS NO GOD it leaves no room for interpretation no room to say we came from anything.
I think that iron clad certainty is impossible to achieve we simply do not have enough evidence to make any definitive conclusions.

As in comparison to a hate group is meant because of the lack of logic. I can never explain to member of the KKK why there are good black people. When he comes from the absolute belief that anything a black person does is wrong and he hates him just for being black. So there is no place to start a debate of any sort. He is already sure

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My guess is that "what they stand for" in your mind is the extremist version. What most atheists stand for is nothing (at least as far as religion goes). How is nothing extremist?

No I just mean being certain being 100% sure. I do not agree with that. Religion doesn’t say there is a dude with a white beard living in the clouds that’s mans interpretation. It just says we are created for a reason and there is a creator. What he/she/it is we have no clue as we are limited to our field of existence.

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No, it uses logic. Faith is what religious people use. Atheists, by definition, lack faith

Are you an atheist?

Do you claim there is no god?
How did you logically reach that conclusion?

I don’t think there is any way for anyone to know.

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As do I. Seems to me its religious people that generally have trouble keeping the standards they claim to strive for.

I think most people are selfish and will change their point of view and do mental gymnastics whenever it is convenient for them regardless of their faith or lack of faith.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[quade 4]

wmw999

I have a feeling that someone who doesn't believe in God is very comfortable with the thought that either we didn't come from anything, or that we don't know what came before the big bang, and that's OK.

Not believing in God doesn't necessarily mean "we didn't come from anything." Some people understand, given enough time, chemistry could easily allow life to happen all by itself. God simply isn't required which is something different. Chemistry isn't "nothing."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ianmdrennan 2]

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It just says we are created for a reason and there is a creator.

And I'm comfortable with the above being the opposite. We have no reason at all, and life it totally meaningless in the long term.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to believe in sunshine, and roses, for the afterlife but it just makes no sense to me that this is how the Universe would work. I believe there is a far higher statistical probability that god does NOT exist, than the inverse.

It has zero effect on my moral compass though - I still feel like I should treat those around me as I'd like to be treated.

In a nutshell - I don't need the threat of eternal damnation to help me make, what I believe to be, good choices.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Darius11 12]

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have a feeling that someone who doesn't believe in God is very comfortable with the thought that either we didn't come from anything,

This is light years away from this IMHO

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or that we don't know what came before the big bang

Not knowing i am ok with i think its the only place we can be right now with logic.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[wmw999 2,446]

The "anything" I was referring to was pre big-bang, not the chemistry which indubitably resulted in life as we know it.

BTW, while I haven't seen a lot of atheists on street corners, I have heard enough of them in close quarters and online that I'm pretty comfortable saying that they can be just as persistent as theists. It's not accepted in open society yet, but it'll get there.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)