US "Default" is Inevitable

[regulator 0]

Its absolutely absurd that dems want to be exempt from obamacare. They thought this shit up...they should have to use it just like everyone else.

[billvon 3,058]

>Its absolutely absure that dems want to be exempt from obamacare.

They're not.

[regulator 0]

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/danieldoherty/2013/10/01/reminder-every-senate-democrat-voted-in-favor-of-exempting-themselves-from-obamacare-n1714217


One of the most profoundly unfair provisions of Obamacare is that members of Congress and their staffers were unilaterally and illegally granted a special exemption from the law they themselves passed. Unlike many Americans, many of whom have been forcibly kicked off their current health care plans, the governing class and their staffers as of now could keep their insurance providers

SAY WHAT?

[kallend 2,099]

turtlespeed

***Sure - so you would have no problem with an XO authorising a debt ceiling hike.

Why Hike the debt ceiling.

Deny funding to non essential parts of government.

Like the nuclear weapons program, the F35, the Littoral ship program...

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,099]

regulator

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/danieldoherty/2013/10/01/reminder-every-senate-democrat-voted-in-favor-of-exempting-themselves-from-obamacare-n1714217


One of the most profoundly unfair provisions of Obamacare is that members of Congress and their staffers were unilaterally and illegally granted a special exemption from the law they themselves passed. Unlike many Americans, many of whom have been forcibly kicked off their current health care plans, the governing class and their staffers as of now could keep their insurance providers

SAY WHAT?

My wife and I keep our insurance providers too, and we are both privately employed.

If you work for a scumbag employer, shame on you.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,058]

======================
Fact Check: Congress, staff are exempt from Obamacare
Posted by
CNN Staff

ASSERTION:
President Obama exempted members of Congress from Obamacare.

“President Obama recently issued a special rule for Congress and congressional staff to get a special subsidy to purchase health insurance on the Obamacare Exchange unavailable to every other American at similar income levels,” said Republican Sen. David Vitter. “That’s an exemption, plain and simple.”

FACTS:
When Obamacare was passed into law, Sen. Charles Grassley, the Iowa Republican, attached language to the bill that mandated members of Congress and their staffers would have to buy health insurance on the newly created health insurance exchanges. What nobody accounted for at the time was that members of Congress and their staffers currently have health insurance through their employer – the federal government. No other employer has been legally required to drop its employee’s health care plan and have them buy coverage on the exchanges.

Like most other large employers, the federal government contributes a portion to the premiums of its employees. In fact, like many employers, the federal government pays most of the premiums for its workers; an average of 72 percent on Capitol Hill. The law didn’t account for the continued employer contribution for these federal workers who would now be buying their insurance on the exchanges. The exchanges were designed to help people without health insurance and people with overly expensive health insurance. It became clear that without their employer contribution, members and their staffers would essentially be getting a cut in pay and benefits equal to thousands of dollars. Even Grassley, the provision’s author, had said the government should continue to contribute to lawmakers’ and staffers’ premiums. What the Obama administration has done is ruled that the congressional workers will continue to receive the employer contribution to help them buy their insurance on the exchange.

VERDICT:
False. Congress is no more exempt than any other employer who drops coverage and then helps employees purchase insurance on the exchanges.
======================

[regulator 0]

kallend

***http://townhall.com/tipsheet/danieldoherty/2013/10/01/reminder-every-senate-democrat-voted-in-favor-of-exempting-themselves-from-obamacare-n1714217


One of the most profoundly unfair provisions of Obamacare is that members of Congress and their staffers were unilaterally and illegally granted a special exemption from the law they themselves passed. Unlike many Americans, many of whom have been forcibly kicked off their current health care plans, the governing class and their staffers as of now could keep their insurance providers

SAY WHAT?

My wife and I keep our insurance providers too, and we are both privately employed.

If you work for a scumbag employer, shame on you.

I've had insurance through this job for the past 5 years I was employed here. So what constitutes a scumbag employer in your book? Any job that isn't academia?

[kallend 2,099]

billvon

======================
Fact Check: Congress, staff are exempt from Obamacare
Posted by
CNN Staff

ASSERTION:
President Obama exempted members of Congress from Obamacare.

“President Obama recently issued a special rule for Congress and congressional staff to get a special subsidy to purchase health insurance on the Obamacare Exchange unavailable to every other American at similar income levels,” said Republican Sen. David Vitter. “That’s an exemption, plain and simple.”

FACTS:
When Obamacare was passed into law, Sen. Charles Grassley, the Iowa Republican, attached language to the bill that mandated members of Congress and their staffers would have to buy health insurance on the newly created health insurance exchanges. What nobody accounted for at the time was that members of Congress and their staffers currently have health insurance through their employer – the federal government. No other employer has been legally required to drop its employee’s health care plan and have them buy coverage on the exchanges.

Like most other large employers, the federal government contributes a portion to the premiums of its employees. In fact, like many employers, the federal government pays most of the premiums for its workers; an average of 72 percent on Capitol Hill. The law didn’t account for the continued employer contribution for these federal workers who would now be buying their insurance on the exchanges. The exchanges were designed to help people without health insurance and people with overly expensive health insurance. It became clear that without their employer contribution, members and their staffers would essentially be getting a cut in pay and benefits equal to thousands of dollars. Even Grassley, the provision’s author, had said the government should continue to contribute to lawmakers’ and staffers’ premiums. What the Obama administration has done is ruled that the congressional workers will continue to receive the employer contribution to help them buy their insurance on the exchange.

VERDICT:
False. Congress is no more exempt than any other employer who drops coverage and then helps employees purchase insurance on the exchanges.
======================

Are you bothering them with facts AGAIN?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,058]

> So what constitutes a scumbag employer in your book?

One that refuses to provide healthcare for their employees?

[beowulf 1]

billvon

>Yeah, the math isn't hard to do. Default is inevitable.

That's what I'm saying - it's not. You could zero out the military and Medicare budgets and avoid default forever. Is that a good idea? Probably not. But it's not inevitable.

(Also GOP take note - if this does come to pass, the treasury department will decide who to pay. Is it a good idea to give Obama final and total control over what programs stay and what programs get cut? Decide now.)

Only if interest rates stayed low. Which is extremely unlikely. SS, Medicare and Medicaid alone will bankrupt the US. They need to be restructured. In my opinion they need to be cut entirely. The military also needs to be cut back.

Obama has already shown he can't be trusted to make cuts. But regardless of who decides they will need to be done sooner or later.

[billvon 3,058]

>Obama has already shown he can't be trusted to make cuts.

And yet the GOP wants to hand him that power. Odd.

[kallend 2,099]

regulator

So what constitutes a scumbag employer in your book?

One that withdraws health insurance from their employees in a hissy fit over the ACA.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[beowulf 1]

billvon

>Obama has already shown he can't be trusted to make cuts.

And yet the GOP wants to hand him that power. Odd.

I am not part of GOP. I really don't care who makes the cuts or really where the cuts are made.

[ShcShc11 0]

Quote

US "Default" is Inevitable

Lucky for us, I can tell you it is not.
The U.S is, for example, in a better medium and long-term economic structure/ forecast than Canada.

And Canada is in a decent position.


Cheers!
Shc

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>Its absolutely absure that dems want to be exempt from obamacare.

They're not.

Yes
But they do pay themselves extra tax dollars so they suffer less than the rest of the country

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

billvon

> So what constitutes a scumbag employer in your book?

One that refuses to provide healthcare for their employees?

You do know when and why employers started offering HC in the wage packages

Right?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,058]

>I am not part of GOP.

Sorry, didn't intend to imply you were. I find it very odd that the GOP is willing to grant the president that much power, and am disappointed that yet another function will be handed over to the executive branch. The president was not intended to have that much power.

[beowulf 1]

billvon

>I am not part of GOP.

Sorry, didn't intend to imply you were. I find it very odd that the GOP is willing to grant the president that much power, and am disappointed that yet another function will be handed over to the executive branch. The president was not intended to have that much power.

The only way spending will ever be cut is if it's done by force. Neither Republicans or Democrats want to cut spending. They each want continue borrowing and spending, just on different things. The only reason they are at this impasse is because Obama doesn't want to negotiate. The Republicans want to cut ACA in some way or another and Obama refuses to negotiate on it.

Personally I don't want ACA and the vast majority of the country doesn't either. This was forced on the country the by the Democrats. It will increase the cost of health care insurance. It already has.

[Stumpy 284]

beowulf

Personally I don't want ACA and the vast majority of the country doesn't either. This was forced on the country the by the Democrats. It will increase the cost of health care insurance. It already has.

Actually no - given that it was a primary tenet of the 2012 presidential race, and the majority of the country voted to keep the authors in power, you are incorrect.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[beowulf 1]

Stumpy

***

Personally I don't want ACA and the vast majority of the country doesn't either. This was forced on the country the by the Democrats. It will increase the cost of health care insurance. It already has.

Actually no - given that it was a primary tenet of the 2012 presidential race, and the majority of the country voted to keep the authors in power, you are incorrect.

Just because Obama was reelected doesn't mean the majority wanted ACA.

Look into how ACA was voted into law. It was done via gamesmanship and during a very short period when the Democrats had the majority in both the House and the Senate. If it were voted on today it would not pass. There are plenty of polls showing that a majority of those polled do not want it.

[quade 4]

beowulf

Look into how ACA was voted into law. It was done via gamesmanship and during a very short period when the Democrats had the majority in both the House and the Senate.

Hoowee! That is some high level gamesmanship right there! A majority of representatives passed a law. Hmmm. Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't that how it's supposed to work?

Regardless of what anyone (hypothetically) would do now. It was completely, 100% totally, passed Constitutionally. No "gamesmanship" required. The LAW PASSED LEGALLY.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lawrocket 3]

billvon

>Yeah, the math isn't hard to do. Default is inevitable.

That's what I'm saying - it's not. You could zero out the military and Medicare budgets and avoid default forever. Is that a good idea? Probably not. But it's not inevitable.

Bill - this is what should be done. And this is what is being popularized as a "default" - not paying the bills as they come due.

So bearing what you are saying can be done, why is default such a big deal? I mean, isn't the President threatening to not service the debt? Or is he using "default" just so it sounds as scary as possible?

That's what I mean by "default" - it's "default" as it has been argued.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[beowulf 1]

Quote

A majority of representatives passed a law.

It wasn't a majority of the current representatives. Or those that represent the majority of the country, even at the time it was voted on.

It was gamesmanship that got it in. Not because the majority of Americans wanted it.
Also just because it's a law doesn't mean the House has to fund it.

[Stumpy 284]

beowulf

Look into how ACA was voted into law. It was done via gamesmanship and during a very short period when the Democrats had the majority in both the House and the Senate.

Yep - thats how it works. Tough shit, deal with it. Want to make the rules? Then become the majority by providing better candidates.
Republicans tend to complain that Obama hasn't done much in his term, yet its because there is a Republican led congress that he can't get a lot of things through.

Quote

If it were voted on today it would not pass.

And if the republicans had won the last election or the one before the bill never would have been passed at all. So what?

Quote

There are plenty of polls showing that a majority of those polled do not want it.

there are plenty of polls saying people want all the individual provisions, there are polls saying that the favorability is actually going up, despite GOP scaremongering, and there are polls (well - non scientific surveys but you get my point!) saying that people would prefer ACA to Obamacare!

Short of it is - this law has followed process fairly, squarely and constitutionally, and the GOP are trying to use fear to derail it.

They would be the first to scream and shout and jump up and down in anger and righteous indignation if the situations were reversed, and the democrats "fought the good fight" and refused to pass a CR unless, lets say, military spending underwent a huge cut.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[rushmc 23]

the republicans did win majority numbers in the house
they ran on repealing ACA

they are doing what they were elected to do

Honorable and courageous

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln