Oklahoma busybody law loses.

[kelpdiver 2]

linebckr83

At what age is a fetus a ten millimeter wide clump of dividing cells? Do you have any idea what a 24-week old fetus looks like? I'll give you a hint...much more like a child than a clump of cells. Hell, Dr. Tiller here in Wichita would even abort into the third trimester. Do you know what a fetus that old looks like?

So we're legislating for something that occurs less than 2% of the time?
http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html

"Most abortions (88%) are obtained in the first trimester of pregnancy. In fact, over half of all abortions are obtained within the first 8 weeks. Fewer than 2% occur at 21 weeks or later."

[billvon 3,008]

>At what age is a fetus a ten millimeter wide clump of dividing cells?

At about 7 weeks.

> Do you have any idea what a 24-week old fetus looks like?

Looks a lot like a human being. Many are viable at 24 weeks.

This law applied to ALL abortions - even those at 7 weeks.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

turtlespeed

***

Evolutionary purpose of sex is procreation. Interfering with it reduces the number children being conceived and born. It really is no different from abortion.

"No different" the same as not pulling the trigger on a gun is "no different" than saving a life.

Sure just like abortion is as much murder as George murdered Trayvon.

[turtlespeed 221]

billvon

>The one requesting the abortion should be given the truth about what she is doing.

They are. They are told what to expect medically. That is the truth.

>She should have to witness the procedure first hand before she is allowed to go forward.

OK, let's do this then:

If anyone who is pregnant goes to an OB-GYN, they should be forced to watch a half an hour of graphic material on maternal eclampsia deaths, fetal abnormalities, stillbirths and birth defects - including the destruction of the body after the child dies. If they close their eyes, or decline to see the video, then there's a mandatory abortion.

That way they go into the pregnancy with the TRUTH about what they are doing.

Fair?

Only if you guarantee that eclampsia death is guaranteed by being pregnant.

See, the baby's death is guaranteed in abortions.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wmw999 2,460]

If a woman wants an early abortion, do you recommend that she have to wait long enough for the ultrasound to be recognizable?

And when does the forced nutrition for women who aren't eating appropriately start, or incarceration for drug addicts or women who drink?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SkyDekker 1,465]

turtlespeed

***>The one requesting the abortion should be given the truth about what she is doing.

They are. They are told what to expect medically. That is the truth.

>She should have to witness the procedure first hand before she is allowed to go forward.

OK, let's do this then:

If anyone who is pregnant goes to an OB-GYN, they should be forced to watch a half an hour of graphic material on maternal eclampsia deaths, fetal abnormalities, stillbirths and birth defects - including the destruction of the body after the child dies. If they close their eyes, or decline to see the video, then there's a mandatory abortion.

That way they go into the pregnancy with the TRUTH about what they are doing.

Fair?

Only if you guarantee that eclampsia death is guaranteed by being pregnant.

See, the baby's death is guaranteed in abortions.

Death penalty guarantees innocent people die
Guns guarantee innocent people die.

You love the death penalty and guns, why are you so sanctimonious with abortion?

[billvon 3,008]

>Only if you guarantee that eclampsia death is guaranteed by being pregnant.

Why don't you want women told the truth about what they are doing?

[billvon 3,008]

>And when does the forced nutrition for women who aren't eating appropriately start,
>or incarceration for drug addicts or women who drink?

Just after the first trimester; a government worker comes along with a cop to draw their blood to check for such things. But under no circumstances are they to have access to healthcare. Because that would be tyranny.

[kallend 2,028]

turtlespeed

*********>They want to make it less stressful to kill the baby.

Actually we don't want the government mandating the insertion of probes into people's bodies. We think that people can make their own decisions without penetrations like that.

But if you really want that done to you . . . knock yourself out.

You don't want people to have choices. You know what is best for them.

That is not an objection to Bill's argument, it is an objection to your argument. You are here in this thread supporting a law that would force women to have a certain procedure instead of letting them choose whether or not to have that procedure.

I don't know how you could posibly be unaware of that. "" is about right.

You miss my point.

.

A non-existent point is easy to miss.

YOU and your right wing friends are busybodies who think you know what is best for women that you've never met, and wish to subject them to humiliating, invasive and medically unnecessary procedures. That is the only relevant point in the entire discussion.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 221]

kallend

YOU and your right wing friends are busybodies who think you know what is best for women that you've never met, and wish to subject them to humiliating, invasive and medically unnecessary procedures. That is the only relevant point in the entire discussion.

As opposed to YOU and your left wing busybodies that think they know what is best for society as a whole, regardless of whether it hurts more people financially than it helps.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kelpdiver 2]

turtlespeed

As opposed to YOU and your left wing busybodies that think they know what is best for society as a whole, regardless of whether it hurts more people financially than it helps.

Freedom isn't free. You should already know that.

[wmw999 2,460]

If you're talking about ACA, consider that medical bills are the single biggest cause of bankruptcy in the US; over half of them. Is that OK? Should people be able to just run up bills that they then walk on? Should people be forced to choose between eating and medical bills (each of you reading this just pick the one that appeals to you )

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[turtlespeed 221]

wmw999

If you're talking about ACA, consider that medical bills are the single biggest cause of bankruptcy in the US; over half of them. Is that OK? Should people be able to just run up bills that they then walk on? Should people be forced to choose between eating and medical bills (each of you reading this just pick the one that appeals to you )

Wendy P.

As much as one has to decide if one wants to join a Union if the company that they are applying to mandates union membership.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[regulator 0]

Funny how you call this an assault on women. If the 'women' would say...close their fucking legs and and stop accepting their own penetrations then perhaps they wouldn't have to be at the abortionist in the first place. But if you call this 'intrusive' yet killing a baby isn't intrusive? That is the definition of hypocrisy.

[billvon 3,008]

>As opposed to YOU and your left wing busybodies that think they know what is best for society as a whole

Well, perhaps you and your right wing buddies have to learn a few more important things:

1) Learn financial responsibility. Stop being irresponsible; stop "saving money" by not getting health insurance, going to the ER when you get sick and then refusing to pay. Pay your own way and stop sticking other people with your bills.

2) Trust the free market, not in government. Don't rely on the government to give you everything you want - trust the private marketplace to provide a solution you like (and then choose it.) It might mean you have to do actual work (gasp!) to find a healthcare solution you like, but no one said you'd have a free ride.

[wmw999 2,460]

And if the men would quit doing whatever they can to get some pussy for their fucking dicks, then maybe the problem of pregnancies would go down, too.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[regulator 0]

Unless of course Kermit Gosnell was performing the abortions...

Maybe this place in new mexico...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCX-tLqETpk

Arizona?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtpdYlcbVRQ

New York?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eipSl72hsmI

Washington D.C.?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxOWyumLufA

[billvon 3,008]

>Funny how you call this an assault on women.

If the law said you needed a colonoscopy before you got Viagra (just so you could see your own colon - for instructive purposes of course) it would be an assault on men. But it's not - it applies only to women.

> But if you call this 'intrusive' yet killing a baby isn't intrusive?

Killing an embryo is intrusive. (Babies aren't embryos or vice versa.) And that is up to the woman, no one else.

A lot of people here don't seem to understand what consent means. If you rape someone, saying "oh, but she had sex with other guys; that's just as intrusive!" doesn't fly - even though the same physical event occurred.

[regulator 0]

No doubt. But unfortunately it all comes down to the responsibility of the woman to ensure there is a form of protection. Whether that be an IUD, A condom, or something else. But a percentage of women are too fucking stupid to close their legs and they use the murder of children as their form of contraceptive. Abortion should be used only in extremely rare circumstances, unfortunately its not.

[wmw999 2,460]

Sometimes that birth control fails.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kelpdiver 2]

regulator

No doubt. But unfortunately it all comes down to the responsibility of the woman to ensure there is a form of protection. Whether that be an IUD, A condom, or something else. But a percentage of women are too fucking stupid to close their legs and they use the murder of children as their form of contraceptive. Abortion should be used only in extremely rare circumstances, unfortunately its not.

I wonder how forthcoming you are with this viewpoint with potential fuck buddies. The lack of responsibility of men in unwarranted pregnancies has been extremely well documented.

And as Wendy suggests, you might check the effectiveness rate of the condom. It's shockingly low.

[wmw999 2,460]

It's our fault if we don't put out, and it's our fault if we get pregnant

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 3,008]

> But unfortunately it all comes down to the responsibility of the woman to ensure there
>is a form of protection. Whether that be an IUD, A condom, or something else.

Wait a minute. An IUD works, in part, by ensuring non-implantation; effectively an abortion of an embryo after conception. (It doesn't prevent conception in many cases.) You really support murdering helpless innocent babies?

[Stumpy 284]

regulator

No doubt. But unfortunately it all comes down to the responsibility of the woman to ensure there is a form of protection. Whether that be an IUD, A condom, or something else. But a percentage of women are too fucking stupid to close their legs and they use the murder of children as their form of contraceptive. Abortion should be used only in extremely rare circumstances, unfortunately its not.

Wow. Just... wow.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[tonyhays 86]

Quote

...But unfortunately it all comes down to the responsibility of the woman to ensure there is a form of protection

How stupid. You probably think the pilot is responsible for your safety too, eh?

Quote

Abortion should be used only in extremely rare circumstances, unfortunately its not.

It doesn't matter what you think about when/how abortions should be used. It doesn't matter what republicans, christians, lawmakers, etc think. You have lost the war. Not just this battle in OK, but you have lost. Just a quick search on google reveals numerous ways to buy the abortion pill online. Delivered anywhere. The people who want to have one, will have one.

If the bible thumpers were half as passionate about teaching safe sex methods, I would be willing to bet there would be a drastic reduction abortions.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”