Who was the worst president, and why?

[rickjump1 0]

jakee

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Come on now....you don't see the hand BHO and the US State Department played in the Arab Spring which quickly turned to Arab Winter?

Enlighten me. What did Obama do to interfere with the stable leadership of, say, Colonel Gaddafi (as stable as Saddam Hussein, BTW)?

You may disagree but to me getting involved after widespread armed insurrection has broken out is not the same as interfering in a stable government. Stable != civil war.

It was called Arab Spring, and it was an endorsement from the White House for revolution in the Middle East. You don't think BHO encouraged these people to revolt? He attempted to bankroll the Egyptian Revolution. http://news.antiwar.com/2013/07/22/us-democracy-aid-bankrolled-egypts-coup/ I find it odd BHO chose someone backed by the Muslim Brotherhood. Regarding Libya: BHO openly encouraged these people to revolt just like he did the Syrians.
Didn't we provide weapons and a no fly zone for Libya? Without this interference, Benghazi would not have happened, and there would have been no Islamic jihadists roaming the streets kidnapping government officials. Do you really believe things are better in Libya?

[url] http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-06-24/opinions/35460266_1_regime-change-military-aid-barack-obama
"I’ve been asking people in and outside the region for an answer to that over the past few weeks: Egyptians, Israelis, Russians, Saudis, Libyans. Predictably, the answers have been widely varying, and often contradictory. But there are two points of consensus: Of course the United States and its president had an influence on how things turned out; and, for the most part, it was a negative one."

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[lawrocket 3]

quade

However, that doesn't take into account the lobbyists and of course the companies and wealth pulling the strings of all of them.

That's like a waterskier blaming the boat driver for pulling the strings. Um - let go.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[wayneflorida 0]

rickjump1

***************Only 1 ever got impeached!

But acquitted.

Only one had to resign in disgrace. Didn't Jimmy Carter give a presidential pardon to Bill Clinton, the draft dodger? I believe he was the first Federal Felon to be elected President of the United States.

No. No, he didn't and no he wasn't.

You have got to sort out this gullibility thing dude.

Clinton received an induction notice once but did not go. I beleive he was in England at the time.
Was going into the guard or reserves and then the lottery started. He had a high number and would not be drafted. He then told the guard/reserve to KMA.

He was never an official draft dodger.

Carter did pardon all official draft dodgers.Never an "official" draft dodger. Ok, but Clinton did everything he could to avoid the draft including getting political help from Arkansas Senator Fulbright and pretending to enroll in ROTC at the University of Arkansas.http://www.1stcavmedic.com/bill-clinton-draft.htm The chronological order of Clinton's determination to avoid the draft are listed here. No....it's not CBS or NBC.

Agreed. Don't have to school me. I just wanted to say, simply, that Clinton was not an official draft dodger.

[rickjump1 0]

Sorry for the schooling. I lived in Arkansas, and am not exactly a fan of the Clintons. I actually voted for him one time when he ran for Governor....end of story.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[jakee 1,500]

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He attempted to bankroll the Egyptian Revolution.

Who was bankrolling? "The Middle East Partnership Initiative - launched by the George W Bush administration in 2002 in a bid to influence politics in the Middle East in the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks"

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Didn't we provide weapons and a no fly zone for Libya?

Did you supply a no-fly zone before the revolution happened?

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Of course the United States and its president had an influence on how things turned out;

Turned out != caused.

Not that I'm surprised that some Americans are so arrogant as to think that nothing in the world can happen without it being because of them

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[JerryBaumchen 1,375]

Hi winsor,

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Truman would have done better to keep nukes as a threat instead of fait accompli

Based upon various books that I have read, we offered to do an example drop in a remote area. The problem was ( IMO ) that we demanded an unconstitutional ( total ) surrender by Japan. This was in retaliation due to what they did to us at Pearl Harbor.

Japan would not agree to an unconstitutional surrender so we did not do an example drop.

Hiroshima had a large military installation there. It is just that the A-bomb was so destructive that a tremendous number of civilians were killed.

Nagasaki was not the target for #2. I don't remember which city was, but again I seem to remember that the original target was again a large military installation. The target was completely clouded over so Nagasaki became the fall-back target.

JerryBaumchen

PS) You've nailed the descriptions of those presidents dead-on with my exception to Truman.

[kelpdiver 2]

JerryBaumchen

Based upon various books that I have read, we offered to do an example drop in a remote area. The problem was ( IMO ) that we demanded an unconstitutional ( total ) surrender by Japan. This was in retaliation due to what they did to us at Pearl Harbor.

Where does the constitution address surrender types? How could it be unconstitutional?

As for the choices made on targets
1) we didn't have very many of these bombs, nor full confidence of their reliability or effectiveness
2) we wanted to end the war as quickly as possible before the Soviets took more territory
3) and who cares? The firebombing of Tokyo was just as destructive against civilians.

[rickjump1 0]

jakee

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He attempted to bankroll the Egyptian Revolution.

Who was bankrolling? "The Middle East Partnership Initiative - launched by the George W Bush administration in 2002 in a bid to influence politics in the Middle East in the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks"

Quote

Didn't we provide weapons and a no fly zone for Libya?

Did you supply a no-fly zone before the revolution happened?

Quote

Of course the United States and its president had an influence on how things turned out;

Turned out != caused.

Not that I'm surprised that some Americans are so arrogant as to think that nothing in the world can happen without it being because of them

Oh no. The British SAS was on the ground controlling airstrikes for the opposition in Libya.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[jakee 1,500]

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Where does the constitution address surrender types? How could it be unconstitutional?

He probably means unconditional.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,500]

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Based upon various books that I have read, we offered to do an example drop in a remote area.

What books? That conflicts with everything I've seen on choice of targets.

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Hiroshima had a large military installation there. It is just that the A-bomb was so destructive that a tremendous number of civilians were killed.

You make it sound like coincidence. A target that just happened to have a city around it. No.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kelpdiver 2]

JerryBaumchen

This was in retaliation due to what they did to us at Pearl Harbor.

BTW, we retaliated for Pearl Harbor at Truk Lagoon. Glorious diving destination, though the ships are started to decay more rapidly now.

[JerryBaumchen 1,375]

Hi Jakee,

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He probably means unconditional.

Yup, thanks for bailing me out.

Getting old is a b****.



JerrryBaumchen

[maxmadmax 8]

Worst. Woodrow Wilson.

Next Worst. James Earl Carter.

Next Next Worst. Barack H. Obama.

Don't go away mad....just go away!

[rickjump1 0]

Hello Jerry, One of our local heroes died back in October. He had spent Christmas with General Patton during the Battle of the Bulge and fought for 310 days straight..... This was part of a talk I gave about his military service to family and friends. It deals with Japan:
"Remember Japan? World War II was far from over. Japan had to be defeated, and no American soldier in Europe, including Herb Styler, wanted to think about being shipped halfway around the world to join General Douglas McArthur's planned invasion of Japan. They were ready to go home, and no amount of clicking their heels together and repeating, "There's no place like home", could get them started home. Nope, the 712th Tank Bn. wasn't going home until the Japanese surrendered.
The US Joint Chiefs of Staff in 1945 estimated US/Allied casualties during the planned invasion of Japan to be 902,000. In total 744,000 WIA and 158,000 dead or missing. To the Japanese soldier, to surrender meant bringing dishonor to himself, his family, his nation, and the Emperor. Out of 22,000 Japanese on the Island of Iwo Jima, 21,000 resisted to the point of death. No one looked forward to an invasion of the Japanese homeland.
On 6 Aug 1945 one American atomic bomb was dropped on the Japanese city of Hiroshima. Three days later another American atomic bomb was dropped on the city of Nagasaki. The Japanese surrendered 14 Aug 1945, and Herb Styler and the 712th Tank Battalion went home on 11 Sep 1945.
Don't let anyone tell you it was wrong to drop atomic bombs on Japan. Those bombs not only saved thousands of American lives, they also saved thousands of Japanese lives."

We can argue about numbers, but I do believe President Truman decision came from the projected number of American casualties as described in "Flags of Our Fathers". James Brady also described how "300 B-29's launched from Iwo Jima on March 19, 1945, dropped the first fire bombs on Tokyo. They dropped more than sixteen hundred tons of incendiary bombs that destroyed more than sixteen square miles of buildings, killed nearly 100,000 people, wounded 125,000, and left 1.2 million homeless. The casualty figures for this and the other firebombing raids were higher than those caused by the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki five months later."

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[kelpdiver 2]

maxmadmax

Worst. Woodrow Wilson.
Next Worst. James Earl Carter.
Next Next Worst. Barack H. Obama.

What did Woodrow do to earn this honor? Not stay out of WWI? I'd give a lot more disdain to his successor, the Dubya of his time.

Carter is fair game, but as I already said, it's impossible to view Obama objectively before he even leaves office.

[JerryBaumchen 1,375]

Hi rick,

I think it is in the book 'American Caesar' where I read that Truman would ask each commanding general how many men would they lose in an upcoming battle.

Eisenhower always estimated low and lost more than he had figured on.

MacArthur was almost always right on the number.

MacArthur advised Truman that it would take a million American casualties to defeat Japan with a land invasion.

That is one additional reason why Truman made the decision to use them.

There was no love lost for the Japanese people by the Americans at that time. They had bombed Pearl Harbor, beheaded American prisoners, burned American prisoners alive, etc.

We truly hated them. Maybe not everywhere in the US but for sure out here on the west coast.

JerryBaumchen

PS) This is one of the best books that I have ever read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Caesar

[ShcShc11 0]

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Don't let anyone tell you it was wrong to drop atomic bombs on Japan. Those bombs not only saved thousands of American lives, they also saved thousands of Japanese lives."

Thousands of Japanese?
You mean millions of Japanese. 20 million Japanese civilians were to be starved in a year-long Navy Blockade.

20 thousand Koreans were dying each month as the war prolonged.

Chinese, Filipinos still under Japanese rule were also dying; not necessarily because Japanese were cruel but because their logistical system were completely broken. If the Japanese can't feed themselves, then they can't feed the people they occupy as well.



Cheers!
Shc

[RonD1120 62]

It is a toss up between Lyndon B. Johnson and Jimmy Carter, IMO.

Johnson upgraded a good SPECOPS training ground in Vietnam to a full blown boondoggle to support his Great Society agenda.

Carter was the first to show the world that an American president is a wuss. He laid the foundation for B. Hussein Obama.

Obama's term is still gathering points. He was raised and tutored to be a communist. However, since he has no leadership qualities he is a piss poor one. So we are just waiting until 2017 to see just how bad a president he really is.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[bakerjan 0]

RonD1120

It is a toss up between Lyndon B. Johnson and Jimmy Carter, IMO.

Johnson upgraded a good SPECOPS training ground in Vietnam to a full blown boondoggle to support his Great Society agenda.

Carter was the first to show the world that an American president is a wuss. He laid the foundation for B. Hussein Obama.

Obama's term is still gathering points. He was raised and tutored to be a communist. However, since he has no leadership qualities he is a piss poor one. So we are just waiting until 2017 to see just how bad a president he really is.

There are people in Canada who say JFK was the worse USA president because he started the nuclear arms race as a campaign tactic,the missile gap, he allowed federal workers to unionize, he forced sientists to quit designing planes to fly into space so he could beat the Russians to the moon using a Jules Vern idea to shoot a bullet at the moon, space capsules. He also got USA into Vietnam.

But maybe Lincoln was worse because he killed more Americans than anyone else and made it so the federal government was too much stronger than the states.

Jan

[RonD1120 62]

bakerjan

***It is a toss up between Lyndon B. Johnson and Jimmy Carter, IMO.

Johnson upgraded a good SPECOPS training ground in Vietnam to a full blown boondoggle to support his Great Society agenda.

Carter was the first to show the world that an American president is a wuss. He laid the foundation for B. Hussein Obama.

Obama's term is still gathering points. He was raised and tutored to be a communist. However, since he has no leadership qualities he is a piss poor one. So we are just waiting until 2017 to see just how bad a president he really is.

There are people in Canada who say JFK was the worse USA president because *SNIP* he got USA into Vietnam.


Jan

I believe President Eisenhower got us into Vietnam via the Southeast Asia Treaty Organization. President Kennedy was handed the problem and he was handling Vietnam with Special Operations. President Johnson seized the false flag opportunity to expand the war with the Gulf of Tonkin Incident.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Stumpy 284]

RonD1120

He was raised and tutored to be a communist.

The whole rest of your post negated by this. Shame.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[RonD1120 62]

Meh!

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rickjump1 0]

Stumpy

*** He was raised and tutored to be a communist.

The whole rest of your post negated by this. Shame.Do yourself a favor and research Frank Marshall Davis and his relationship with Barack Hussein Obama.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[Stumpy 284]

rickjump1

****** He was raised and tutored to be a communist.

The whole rest of your post negated by this. Shame.Do yourself a favor and research Frank Marshall Davis and his relationship with Barack Hussein Obama.

Do yourself a favour, stop parroting right wing talking points and learn to think critically.
HTH

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[rickjump1 0]

Stumpy

********* He was raised and tutored to be a communist.

The whole rest of your post negated by this. Shame.Do yourself a favor and research Frank Marshall Davis and his relationship with Barack Hussein Obama.

Do yourself a favour, stop parroting right wing talking points and learn to think critically.
HTH Shameful and closed minded.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.